Update 35: We’re Still Listening

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by Blacky » October 2nd, 2013, 11:11 pm

Thrin wrote:Chances are what we saw in the demo is what we'll get in the game with minor tweaks.
You have absolutely no way of knowing, barring working for inXile.
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If things make sense in a real-world sense, I don’t think people give too much flak for it not being game-y enough, I think keeping the world sense together is the most important thing we can be doing.—Brian Fargo

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by Grohal » October 3rd, 2013, 12:31 am

Thrin wrote:..
Chances are what we saw in the demo is what we'll get in the game with minor tweaks. That map is that map.
...
I am pretty sure that map we were shown was only PART of that map (called former prison). ;)
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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by Drool » October 3rd, 2013, 12:34 am

It was also set in a canyon.
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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by GodComplex » October 3rd, 2013, 1:40 am

Drool wrote:It was also set in a canyon.
You mean that a group of people living in a hostile environment would pick an easily defensible position with limited entry points? That totally breaks immersion as any person with common sense would pick an open field that allows them to see the enemies coming.
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1/3 says stop being overcritical
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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by ffordesoon » October 3rd, 2013, 2:40 am

@Son of Max:

Hey, I agree with you. It seems like a pointlessly negative attitude. But the internet is full of pointless negativity, so...

*shrug*
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
As a poster, I speak only for myself. PM me if you have any problems with the way I moderate.

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by Son of Max » October 3rd, 2013, 5:27 pm

Thrin wrote:Chances are what we saw in the demo is what we'll get in the game with minor tweaks. That map is that map. Given where the game is / was in development that level is probably 'set' and only the little things (maybe grammar, some dialogue tweaks, the UI continues to iterate, and maybe some additional particle type effects) will be changed.
Fine with me, for the very reason you mentioned below...
Thrin wrote: Given how the map was laid out I really don't get all the comments about linearity. It was clear to me that a player could elect to go in one direction or another direction based on their own decision. There was no set path on that map. I am good with what I saw in terms of decisions being made at a map level. There were areas to go into and different ways to complete things that were on the map.
That's what I saw too; the dev was taking a specific route through the map for the purpose of demoing specific parts/features of that specific map and the gameplay at this point. Made total sense too; when you want emphasize specific content and features, you take a route that allows you to do so. That may seem linear, but only because the dev's plotting of the demo hit a series of specific points in the course of the demo.

What did people expect them to do? Wander around the entire map, showing the entire map and everything in it, thus giving the whole level away in the course of exhibiting the points they wanted to?

I would think that would actually anger way more people.

Was that really so hard for people to understand?
Thrin wrote: But, don't be expecting major changes from what we've seen and what we'll be getting. Polish usually refers to the small things. The big things are done. They might clean up some of the graphics (in that they may put in higher quality textures but, then again, they may not) and toy a little with the scripts but what we saw is, for all intents and purposes, the game.
Fine with me. I had no problem with that aspect of the demo.

ffordesoon wrote:@Son of Max:

Hey, I agree with you. It seems like a pointlessly negative attitude. But the internet is full of pointless negativity, so...

*shrug*
Sorry if that came off as directed at you, that wasn't my intention. I was agreeing with your point and broke into rant mode.

Again, apologies. :oops:
25 years and it's finally here...

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by ffordesoon » October 3rd, 2013, 7:23 pm

Haha, no prob. Just saying. :D
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by Hiver » October 4th, 2013, 6:55 am

Brother None wrote:
Hiver wrote:This to me looked to be saying that there was no underlying grid at all, at the start of the design - and that it was then later added.
That's not the same thing you've been saying for some time now, you said "the game does not use the grid for its calculations at all". That is not true. It uses it for all its calculations.
What kind of grid does it use? Actually.

The point is that ive been dealing only with the facts i had presented and you all presented them horribly. Thats the point.
The point is that your original "explanation" was ridiculously bad and insufficient and you havent made any of it clear at all.

But NOW youre saying it is - just so and so.
And im having a struggle to offer you some decent will to believe it at all. Frankly.

Also, we're talking about, what, 10 months ago? We were barely out of pre-production then. Sure, at the very start of design it was free-form, and there were other things different that long ago too. That's how development works, you iterate and add different elements throughout the game.
For all intents and purposes - when the two "demo" sections are compared, the first one and this last one - then the decline is obvious.
Hiver wrote:Which should mean that the square grid was there from the start... only.... you didnt think it would be good to show the grid to the players, yes?
I didn't even remotely say or imply anything like that. Are you ironically trying to prove people's point about devs posting on forums and people intentionally misreading their posts?[/quote]
No, im trying to figure out how in the hell is that logic over-there even working.
Because what it seems to be implying - doesnt make much sense, to say it politely.

What i take from this all is, that at the best - youre all incompetent.

If you really want to push me that far and if you really cant figure out what im saying.
And if you really want to continue blaming my personality, my secret motives (that you invent however it pleases you best) and letting personal insults continue around here.
meganothing wrote: Hiver, don't you see that your aggressive form of communication is the best justification for their cautiousness? You are practically the embodiment of some of the reasons.
Oh, so now youre all going to blame me for lack of communication - is that the way of it?
And then what should follow that brilliant logic of yours?

That i should shut up?
Or that i should be banned?

No, no...i should either talk all nicely to these devs who dont talk at all, and be all gentle and just scream how everything is "AWESOME" and "SO EXCITING!"#
Its either that or shutting up or banning - IS IT?

Oh..its not? Youve would have never, eh?


Son of Max wrote:
Drool wrote:You do realise that was a demo, right?
Drool, just...stop. You don't even have to go any further than that.

It's patently obvious even to the casual observer that Hiver and some of the others around here cannot distinguish between a demo and a finished product.

That's what make every update thread an incredulous mess; people see a demo, hate the demo, think it's the finished product, proceed to proclaim Wasteland 2 as a failure.

Just...save your breath. They either don't know what a demo is or they do and just wanna bitch about every little thing that isn't exactly how they want it or doesn't live up to their expectations (despite still being in pre-beta development).
Ah, another strawman ad hominem. Thats why drool is on ignore for a long time now. nothing else in that little head.

Yes - by golly you sir must be telepathic to so judge me so correctly!
Why nothing else that whatever falls out of your brain must be teh truth and nothing else then the truth!
You have indeed discovered my dastardly secret motivations!!!!
Its all so patently OBVIOUS!! OBVIOUS NO LESS!

while really, the only thing that is actually blatantly obvious is you.

Brother None wrote:
Zombra wrote:I think he just wants to know how blatantly disrespectful he can be to you guys without getting banned. I've been wondering the same thing for a while :lol:
Being disrespectful to us is not really a ban-worthy offense, though outright lying and twisting words is pushing it a little. It is possible this board needs a little more moderation than I ideally want to give it, it's just a shame when so many people are great but there's just a handful pissing all over every single update thread and that makes them degenerate so hard. I loved all the indepth feedback to the video but obsessively hammering on the same point ("inXile is selling out to the mainstream!") over and over is not really constructive.
What... you take zombras words for truth?
About me? That half brained .... thing?

Im lying, twisting words?
How fucking dare you?
Are you so pathetically desperate to invent some excuse to ban me?
How can you be so pathetic?

degenarate so hard? are you calling me a degenarate?
or is that an office term for all who dont agree and praise the holy inXile vision of any crap at all?
The only thing that is degenerating are all you - who cant keep your single post away from personal insults and youre imagined telepathy - which is nothing else but rabid fight to keep your own pathetic emotional engagement and then attack anything that doesnt conform with it.

dflatline wrote:He'd just go post elsewhere some shit about inXile CENSORING DISSENT FOR THEIR CORPORATE MAINSTREAM MASTERS if you so much as told him to shut up.

Then slap his girlfriend hard
Is this another thing you agree with so this can be written on these forums but - what i say is not?
Does this satisfy some butthurt part of you or maybe is that some kind of fantasy you indulge too?
Are these pathetic lines of some pathetic worms what you want to see on the boards - and then dare to criticize me and threaten me with a BAN?



/
And what now... youre going to complain about my post? Youre going to tell me its my fault and that my language is harsh?
or event better, are you going to tell me that i should not have answered anything at all to this latest pile of personal insults, ad homninems and strawman arguments that - somehow - apparently is what you want to be written. That is supported - but when i answer - that is not?


Im just supposed to stand here and just accept whatever the likes of zombra throws at me - BECAUSE YOU AGREE WITH IT? And then youre going to cover that in some talk about how one should behave on teh forums and not be insulting to others !?






Well look "buddy", what you presented at that gamescom event is simply and purely - crap.
It is crap in all the possible angles one can look at. In all the most important features of an RPG - it is crap.
Nothing else. There isnt a single good thing there to praise or regard positively.


And if that is the demo, and not a finished product (yes thank you you geniuses of the inXile boards and next suckup future moderators or whatever... who the fuck could ever figure that one out if it wasnt for you!) - then you dont say to me "you cant criticize this because it is not a finish product", you dont say to me "oh iteration, oh work in progress"!


You want me to say something better - YOU GO AND MAKE SOMETHING BETTER!

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by Brother None » October 4th, 2013, 7:09 am

Hiver wrote:The point is that your original "explanation" was ridiculously bad and insufficient and you havent made any of it clear at all.
No one else seems to have problems understanding what we're saying.
Hiver wrote:How fucking dare you?
Are you so pathetically desperate to invent some excuse to ban me?
How can you be so pathetic?
Apparently you already forgot when I told you "either stop insulting people or you will be banned".

So there you go. Banned.
Hiver wrote:are you calling me a degenarate?
I clearly did not, I said threads degenerate. Your aggressively misinterpreting simple statements is a big part of the problem, though. But no longer a concern.
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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by Thrin » October 4th, 2013, 7:43 am

Brother None wrote:
Hiver wrote:...
How can you be so pathetic?
Apparently you already forgot when I told you "either stop insulting people or you will be banned".

So there you go. Banned.
Thank you.

I was (am) surprised at how long you allowed such a caustic and malicious poster (this opinion is formed solely based upon the content of Hiver's posts) to linger in the forums for so long.

I'm not a fan of "censorship" but I am a fan of reasonable discussion and the forums being a place to share ideas / discuss things / argue about stuff and, overall, being a place that promotes healthy conversations. Someone who purposefully is antagonistic, insults people, berates others for differing opinions, and aggressively attacks the character of other posters as opposed to their ideas needs to go.

So, again, thank you. In my view you've done us all a service. Not because of the ideas that Hiver was writing about but because of HOW they were being written.
Last edited by Thrin on October 4th, 2013, 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by Infinitron » October 4th, 2013, 8:24 am

Brother None is a veteran of forums with rather lax moderation policies. ;)

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by GodComplex » October 6th, 2013, 9:30 pm

Infinitron wrote:Brother None is a veteran of forums with rather lax moderation policies. ;)
BN was a 4Chan janitor?
1/3 of my brain says blue radiation might be cool
1/3 says stop being overcritical
1/3 says a Baby Ruth could have prevented this situation
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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by Blacky » October 7th, 2013, 4:01 am

He's a pillar of NMA.
Chez Blacky, jdr et autres
If things make sense in a real-world sense, I don’t think people give too much flak for it not being game-y enough, I think keeping the world sense together is the most important thing we can be doing.—Brian Fargo

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by Dominativus » October 7th, 2013, 5:06 am

He's also one on Gamebanshee.

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by The Enemy » October 7th, 2013, 5:31 am

I have been reading (and very rarely posting to) this forum since the very beginning and just wanted to delurk to give Brother None a high-five for banning Hiver. I had long ago given up hope that that would happen. This is a great day for the Internet!

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by The Doctor » October 7th, 2013, 1:01 pm

Hiver wrote: a septic rant
Wow, I've heard about this happening on forums but I've never seen someone implode like that. :shock:

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by Zombra » October 7th, 2013, 1:18 pm

Shhh, let's just leave it behind us and look forward into a bright future, budding with promise, that none of us knew could be so beautiful before.
Image

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by The Doctor » October 8th, 2013, 9:27 am

Zombra wrote:Shhh, let's just leave it behind us and look forward into a bright future, budding with promise, that none of us knew could be so beautiful before.
:lol:

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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by dorkboy » October 8th, 2013, 9:31 am

close this thread, please.
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Re: Update 35: We’re Still Listening

Post by under_dog » October 8th, 2013, 12:19 pm

Hiver wrote:blah, blah blah ..
OFF TOPIC :

I have to agree with one thing though. It's the lack of communication.
It's been real long time that i haven't read more than one shots post from a dev, let alone a real convo.

Considering what ways of communication has been decided for the Torment dev time, i'm sort of anxious about where things are going

Wouldn't it be good to initiate a new "Ask a Dev" session ???

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