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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: August 9th, 2013, 2:03 pm
by Crosmando
Unless of course your ideal art-style for WL2 is this:
Image

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: August 9th, 2013, 2:14 pm
by Zombra
Crosmando wrote:Wasteland looked the way it did because of the limited color palette the computer systems they were designing for had. Which is why the c64 version looked so different than the pc version, and also the apple2. Who knows what Wasteland would of looked like if it was made in the 90's, it might of looked like Fallout or Dark Sun graphics wise.
All quite true ... however, my point still stands. Perhaps you're right and Wasteland was intended to be darkity dark, or perhaps it was intended to be bright and shiny, or perhaps it was intended to be a first person shooter, or only to be played on 12 foot high projector screens. The fact is, it was the way it was, and it did establish a visual style using the tools available at the time. None of what you have said proves that "no one" cared for that visual style or that no one wants bright colors; you've just proved that it is possible nowadays to make a game without bright colors.

Again: I liked the visual style of Wasteland, and want to see it preserved.
Also you do not understand what the word saturation means.
Enlighten me. You said: "No one wants bright colors". I thought I knew what "bright colors" meant, but I guess I am wrong. Please explain to the class what the phrase "bright colors" really means.
And I was just making the point that InXile are obviously going for a realistic style, so with the camera zoomed out the rangers look small and their proportions look realistic in comparison to objects.
As I said, I agree with you that character proportions are similar in Wasteland and in Wasteland 2. That does not mean that photorealism is the goal here.
This "realism" is also shown in the subdued color palette they are using. Don't believe me, just look at any of the released screenshots for WL2, they all have that subdued realistic tone.
Well, we know that the game will ship with options for heavier or lighter saturation. Look at the very first screenshot ... go back to 2012 and read all the complaints about how it was too colorful, too saturated ... and all the support for that much color and saturation. I agree that the sequel has lost a lot of color compared to the original from what we've seen. This still doesn't constitute proof that no one wants bright color.
So therefore, I win.
As you please. All your points are refutable or at least arguable, but if you're satisfied, you can drop the conversation right here and let me have the last word. :)
Crosmando wrote:Unless of course your ideal art-style for WL2 is this:
Image
(Note to everyone else: sorry I quoted that image so you have to scroll past it twice, but Crosmando insists that I never cut anything out when I reply to him.)

Honestly, I think the colors in that screenshot are wonderful, and I'd love to see that kind of palette used for W2. The art style is a completely different story; that shot is far too busy and "dirty" with detail. The original Wasteland had vivid colors and clean lines. Clarity (or lack thereof) defines an art style (and UI layout!) just as much as, if not more than, color does. I cheerfully concede that your screenshot is a colorful mess - but that doesn't mean that colorful = mess. That shot would look at least as bad in shades of brown, and probably worse.

One could just as easily say: "The characters in this screenshot have realistic proportions; this screenshot is bad; therefore, realistic proportions are bad." That makes exactly as much sense.

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: August 9th, 2013, 9:55 pm
by Drool
Clearly, the screen shot should have looked like this:

Image

:lol:

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: August 9th, 2013, 10:57 pm
by Zombra
Zombra wrote:
Crosmando wrote:Wasteland looked the way it did because of the limited color palette the computer systems they were designing for had. Which is why the c64 version looked so different than the pc version, and also the apple2. Who knows what Wasteland would of looked like if it was made in the 90's, it might of looked like Fallout or Dark Sun graphics wise.
All quite true ... however, my point still stands. Perhaps you're right and Wasteland was intended to be darkity dark, or perhaps it was intended to be bright and shiny, or perhaps it was intended to be a first person shooter, or only to be played on 12 foot high projector screens. The fact is, it was the way it was, and it did establish a visual style using the tools available at the time. None of what you have said proves that "no one" cared for that visual style or that no one wants bright colors; you've just proved that it is possible nowadays to make a game without bright colors.
And you know what, I'm going to backtrack on what I said here. On further reflection, the original Wasteland was clearly NOT intended to be darkity dark, or a "Falloutish" mud wash. Look at my avatar for chrissakes. Christina could EASILY have had a grey gun and a brown shirt with a brown collar, but she didn't. She had a blue gun and a different blue shirt and a red collar. Drools didn't have to have blue eyes; they could have had black eyes or brown eyes. But they are blue. This goes for all the graphics in the game. Brown and grey could have totally dominated the aesthetic, but they did not. The bright colorfulness of Wasteland was a deliberate choice.

And I'm not reposting your entire post, Crosmando, because I'm not quoting you here; I'm quoting myself quoting you. Clear?

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: August 10th, 2013, 12:15 am
by Crosmando
Drool wrote:Clearly, the screen shot should have looked like this:

Image

:lol:
I'm pretty sure that IS exactly how it will look, no changes. If there were placeholder gfx then you'd immediately notice them, they wouldn't be this detailed.

Though that screen obviously doesn't have any AA or graphical filters running.

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: August 10th, 2013, 12:52 am
by Drool
Zombra wrote:And you know what, I'm going to backtrack on what I said here. On further reflection, the original Wasteland was clearly NOT intended to be darkity dark, or a "Falloutish" mud wash. Look at my avatar for chrissakes. Christina could EASILY have had a grey gun and a brown shirt with a brown collar, but she didn't.
Silly zebra. Everyone knows that gray and brown didn't exist until 1996.

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: August 10th, 2013, 5:08 am
by shaigunjoe
Crosmando wrote:
highpoolNomad wrote:
Crosmando wrote: We are talking about the actual detail and polycount in the textures, not about reusing assets (which no-one is suggesting).
Skipping out on detail of textures for a larger game is supporting reuse of textures.
How so?
If you don't want to make textures more detailed to differentiate from one another, then you are just going to make the same texture. Even with reduced polygon count, you may be actually using a different texture, but it will look less distinct and give the appearance of reused textures, which is just as bad.

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: August 20th, 2013, 4:12 pm
by sirchet
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the graphics in the screen shot.

I like it, it's detailed enough to carry the theme, yet not a resource hog.

Great job guys, looking forward to seeing more.

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: August 20th, 2013, 4:46 pm
by dflatline
Yeah, I have no complaints either. It's certainly an improvement on the first screenshot with the scorpitron in it, the lighting on that was really bad.

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: August 26th, 2013, 4:54 pm
by rjshae
The screen shot look brilliant! Thanks for showing it to us. :D

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: October 18th, 2013, 11:25 pm
by J1811
I really like that you can zoom out! Bonus of having it PC-only I suspect.

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: November 17th, 2013, 1:42 pm
by 4Aces
Lucius wrote:Modders will have hi res texture packs out a week after release.
It will take me a bit longer than that (unless I get early access). :mrgreen:
ffordesoon wrote:I love how people are shocked that the game looks like the screenshots we've been seeing all throughout development. It's almost as if the game has a small budget! :o
$3M with Unity is a lot, as most is actually going to salaries instead of the engine (whether writing one or licensing one - UDK). Normally about 40% of a budget goes to the software alone, but Unity makes is much more affordable. So do not sell it short. It will look much better once it is finalized.

I can take care of any textures that gets missed except the grass, as it looks like it is procedurally textured. That means I would have to have access to the level inside Unity, so that I could modify the procedural formula used. Procedural textures are generated based on mathematical formulae, not a 'picture' which a texture artist can edit in photoshop. I would have to edit it in Unity and re-save the level. If the grass is a standard texture though, it will not pose much of a challenge.

The grass appears to not be poly based. It looks like a flat texture being displayed on a one-sided virtual plane. This saves a lot of resources, but also limits the amount of realistic movement possible. Some randomization is still possible, but it will not look realistic.
dorkboy wrote:no idea how the grass asset works in unity; whether it's one big pattern thingie that you apply to a large area or individual brushes that have to be stamped out onto the ground like so much official paperwork, but it would be pretty sweet, in terms of sheer filler content, if it was possible to randomize the rotation (even within a hypothetical "big pattern"). provided the clumps of grass actually look different with different rotation, mind you.. :?
It is both. You can create groups of individual items to use as a 'stamp', or paint with one item at a time. Both comes with multiple levels of randomization. Unity is more sophisticated than has been shown so far, but at this stage of development it is not surprising. The bells and whistles get added last so they do not interfere with the core game.

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: November 17th, 2013, 3:39 pm
by Woolfe
4Aces wrote:
dorkboy wrote:no idea how the grass asset works in unity; whether it's one big pattern thingie that you apply to a large area or individual brushes that have to be stamped out onto the ground like so much official paperwork, but it would be pretty sweet, in terms of sheer filler content, if it was possible to randomize the rotation (even within a hypothetical "big pattern"). provided the clumps of grass actually look different with different rotation, mind you.. :?
It is both. You can create groups of individual items to use as a 'stamp', or paint with one item at a time. Both comes with multiple levels of randomization. Unity is more sophisticated than has been shown so far, but at this stage of development it is not surprising. The bells and whistles get added last so they do not interfere with the core game.
That was my theory as well. That would be "cleaning up" work to make it look better. To get the game working you just need a tile with grass on it. :D

Re: New Highpool screenshot

Posted: November 17th, 2013, 10:04 pm
by dorkboy
ah, good to know, thanks, 4Aces. :)