New Highpool screenshot

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Felixg91
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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by Felixg91 » August 7th, 2013, 8:38 am

I am strangely comfortable with it. I like the fallback to a bit more retro graphics style.

I still play Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 and the Fallouts 1 and 2 and Ice wind Dale 1 and 2.

THese Graphics are better and I think it looks very entertaining and playable. I will take it as is right now!

Gila Monsters are actually pretty cool animals they are not very aggressive though and much smaller, mutation kickin in.

Yes Australia has some nasty indig life forms. But hopefully that's a MadMax game in the wings.

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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by tomatpaburk » August 7th, 2013, 9:04 am

TΛPETRVE wrote:That's because it's not lichen (a dry growth), but algae. And that's exactly what algae look like. The only problem I have with that part is that they use the same texture twice in a row.
Well if that is lichen or algea isnt exactly clear since we cant see if there is any water on the other side of the dam. Algea only grows if there is plenty of water or moisture constantly touching that surface. Looking at the very dry desert landscape that seems unlikely.
Crosmando wrote: Well, that's the thing innit mate. InXile could spend more time having their environmental artists sharpening up the textures in their already finished maps, OR they could not do that, just ignore the whiners and instead tell their artists to move onto more maps, so we get a bigger game :D
Focusing on content is more important then making a game that pushes your hardware, no question about that.

What I would like to see is consistency. Just look at the brown rock texture and compare it to the concrete textures. One is good and one is crap. Concrete texture is a pretty simple texture to begin with, and as we are likely to see concrete objects on more then one occasion through the game, more effort should have been put into making it look good.

On top of that it looks as if the same texture is used on the concrete tower as well as on the handrail and the pipes leading from the building. Why isnt the concrete of the tower the same texture as the concrete of the rest of the dam? That makes it look as if its just a 3D asset that has been put into place but not finalized.

So if this screenshot is of a "finished" location, it makes me fearful that final product will look as if its not done or that some areas wont live up to the standard set by the rest of the game.

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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by Darkzone » August 7th, 2013, 9:45 am

ffordesoon wrote:I will say, though, that if the grass all swaying at the same exact speed truly does give Darkzone motion sickness, it would probably be good to investigate whatever the hell he just said about sine waves or whatever.

What? I'm bad at math.
Obviously, and about the application of math even worse.

The sinus curve applied on the time start interval to the swing animation at a swing direction of the plants and along the dimension would let the parts of plants swing forward other would be on the back movement. This would desynchronize the overall movement, of all plants. Yes it would look more natural than this. But the main effect would be that the picture is not moving back and forth like a boat, on the sea.

The belief that a much content equals good game is a common deception. Therefore i used the example of Fallout 1 in comparison to Fallout 2. Fallout 1 had much less content but worked very good, Fallout 2 had much more content but it was not so exciting.
It is as saying that a painter who paints more pictures but less sophisticated is better than a painter who paints less pictures but with all the sophistication.
Last edited by Darkzone on August 7th, 2013, 10:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by Thrin » August 7th, 2013, 9:51 am

I, for one, am very happy with how the game looks. The more I see it the more I like where they've gone with the art in the game. If the game was released like this with no changes to the graphics I would be happy with that element.

My major interest is in how the game plays and the story (stories) it creates.

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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by dorkboy » August 7th, 2013, 10:03 am

desynchronizing the grass/tree movement seems like a good way of "faking variety" - rather than creating 142098 unique assets.
same with occasionally rotating the trees/bushes/etc..

more bang, same buck. +my two cents (so a little bit more bang, but not much..)

edit:
no idea how the grass asset works in unity; whether it's one big pattern thingie that you apply to a large area or individual brushes that have to be stamped out onto the ground like so much official paperwork, but it would be pretty sweet, in terms of sheer filler content, if it was possible to randomize the rotation (even within a hypothetical "big pattern"). provided the clumps of grass actually look different with different rotation, mind you.. :?

edit#2:
reason i'm saying this is because the grass, to me, seems like the weakest visual link at the moment - not because it's a major issue or anything.

edit#3:
this edit comes with a huge facepalm on my part. the clumps of grass are indeed randomly (or seemingly so) rotated.
i thought the light and dark clumps at the far side of the path (near the wall) were actually two separate assets..
and there does indeed appear to be a lot more variation in the bright grass at the near side of the path than i noticed at first.
i doesn't really look that bad, but the transition fron ground to individual, isolated clumps of grass seems to accentuate the flat/2d nature of the asset.
Last edited by dorkboy on August 9th, 2013, 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by Brother None » August 7th, 2013, 11:39 am

tomatpaburk wrote:So if this screenshot is of a "finished" location, it makes me fearful that final product will look as if its not done or that some areas wont live up to the standard set by the rest of the game.
This is an alpha screenshot, of course it's not final. Same goes for the video, pre-alpha to alpha.

This is a fresh reminder that you usually don't get to see games in this stage, and that it really does require a different mindset from the usual judging of PR-polished screenshots.

PS: that's not to say "don't criticize", of course, just "try not to criticize as if it's final".
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Darkzone
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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by Darkzone » August 7th, 2013, 11:54 am

@Brother None
So there is still hope for disynchronisation to the movement of the plants. :)
Please think about my motion sickness.
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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by dorkboy » August 7th, 2013, 12:43 pm

ffordesoon wrote: And the old Fallouts absolutely did not look better. They look better in your memory, because Fallout did such a great job of sucking players into its world that the graphics didn't matter. It's like Torment; ninety percent of the models are the same blobby little ones painted different colors, but when you think back on it, you don't remember the models. Even most of the close-up portraits now look absurdly dated, like they were made out of foam and pipe cleaners. But you don't remember most of those, either. You remember the pictures Avellone and McComb's evocative prose painted in your head. You vividly remember looking out at the wasteland for the first time in Fallout, even though the game's perspective necessarily disallowed it, because the text activated your imagination.
1. what initially sucked me into Fallout 2 (the first one i played) was the graphics.
2. arguably ninety-ish percent, yeah, but i remember the models quite well, thank you. actually, i remember spending a great deal of time in infinity explorer having a better look at all the amazingly cool assets. [fun fact: the character animations are flipped horizontally (so the hive thugs, for instance, change from holding their knives in the right hand to holding it in their left hand when they rotate beyond a certain point)]. have you actually looked at the details in the mortuary or the weeping stone catacombs?
3. true, some of the materials used for the models in the journal thingie looked like plastic (metals in particular didn't look too hot) but i do remember the portraits and journal entries quite well, actually. (because they were interesting to look at, though i didn't particularily like the single-coloured backgrounds for the companion portraits).
4. i remember the prose, too, and quite a lot of the music and UI art, as well (even the radial "#"¤!@ menu which didn't match the rest of the UI design scheme).
5. i vividly remember the cutscenes where you do look out at the effin wasteland.. not in perfect detail, of course, but then again i don't remember anything in perfect detail, no matter how visually evocative.

so i guess i kind of disagree. ;)
i think WL2 definitely needs to look interesting.
[oh, i know - this will be misunderstood as an argument in favour of photo-realistic graphical fidelity..]
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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by MJFERN » August 7th, 2013, 1:12 pm

Brother None wrote:
tomatpaburk wrote:So if this screenshot is of a "finished" location, it makes me fearful that final product will look as if its not done or that some areas wont live up to the standard set by the rest of the game.
This is an alpha screenshot, of course it's not final. Same goes for the video, pre-alpha to alpha.

This is a fresh reminder that you usually don't get to see games in this stage, and that it really does require a different mindset from the usual judging of PR-polished screenshots.
*Just frickin' claps*

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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by Mishrak » August 7th, 2013, 2:20 pm

Brother None wrote: This is an alpha screenshot, of course it's not final. Same goes for the video, pre-alpha to alpha.

This is a fresh reminder that you usually don't get to see games in this stage, and that it really does require a different mindset from the usual judging of PR-polished screenshots.
I'm surprised people still don't realize that, but I guess there's always some. Beta is still 2 months away. And if it's a December or January release, then there's still plenty of time to put some polish on the textures. We also get mod tools, so we'll definitely get a high res pack if the graphics still need to be shored up after release.

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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by Ronin73 » August 7th, 2013, 3:27 pm

Brother None wrote: This is an alpha screenshot, of course it's not final. Same goes for the video, pre-alpha to alpha.

This is a fresh reminder that you usually don't get to see games in this stage, and that it really does require a different mindset from the usual judging of PR-polished screenshots.

PS: that's not to say "don't criticize", of course, just "try not to criticize as if it's final".
It's astonishing how often this needs to be explained. It's like every screenshot needs to have "Not Final" in the initial post to avoid repetitiveness.

I dare say the graphics won't be a finished product by the time beta rolls around, either.

Perspective people :)
The biggest failure in the recent past is this assumption that the audience is not smart.Too much effort is being spent making it dummy proof..all the clues are being held right in front of their nose.The exploration and journey is the reward

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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by tomatpaburk » August 7th, 2013, 4:19 pm

Brother None wrote:This is an alpha screenshot, of course it's not final. Same goes for the video, pre-alpha to alpha.

This is a fresh reminder that you usually don't get to see games in this stage, and that it really does require a different mindset from the usual judging of PR-polished screenshots.

PS: that's not to say "don't criticize", of course, just "try not to criticize as if it's final".
Thanks for the response, indeed this type of process requires a different mindset then a PR screenshot would, and ill keep that in mind.

In truth my first post was more to the point of my worries, the second post was more of a response to the people who though that everything looked great and that spending more times on textures and graphics would be a waste of time compared to other features, which is why my arguments got more "focused" on criticism.

I suppose that I expected the screenshots to be as polished as Im used to, so when I saw these i got a negative vibe. I simply hope that more work will be done on the textures.


As for the whole "Why do people make posts like this. Im surprised people don't realize that they will address it" argument. When new information on the game is released we all post comments on it, no matter what field of game play is featured. We always make assumptions regarding the new information and express our opinions on it.

If we don't make posts they don't know how we feel. By your argument, we shouldn't make any posts regarding game features, after all, how can we ever know if the info they post is just a quick mockup or a finished feature. Maybe the thing you are planning to post has already been discussed by them, maybe its not relevant at all since they have already moved past it.

Its easy to be wise right after the Devs make a comment, but how did any of you guys "know" that this wasnt final art?

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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by Woolfe » August 7th, 2013, 4:58 pm

tomatpaburk wrote:Its easy to be wise right after the Devs make a comment, but how did any of you guys "know" that this wasnt final art?
Because the Beta hasn't started. Pretty much anything released prior to the "Beta" is therefore "Alpha".

Once the Beta has started, I will be of the opinion that anything that is released is Beta, unless it says "FINAL" on it somewhere.
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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by tomatpaburk » August 8th, 2013, 1:01 am

Woolfe wrote:
tomatpaburk wrote:Its easy to be wise right after the Devs make a comment, but how did any of you guys "know" that this wasnt final art?
Because the Beta hasn't started. Pretty much anything released prior to the "Beta" is therefore "Alpha".

Once the Beta has started, I will be of the opinion that anything that is released is Beta, unless it says "FINAL" on it somewhere.
Well we can only make our comments based on what we actually see right? We cant assume that the things that are bugging us will be fixed unless we point them out.

"Hmmmmm that seems a bit off to me, maybe I should say something..... Nah, they have prob already thought of that and will fix it later. This game is gonna be EPIC, they are listening to all my concerns before I even voice them!" ;)

Obviously not everyone was of the same mind as you regarding if the location was finished or not. It appears that Crosmando (amongst several others) felt that it was "good enough":
Crosmando wrote:Well, that's the thing innit mate. InXile could spend more time having their environmental artists sharpening up the textures in their already finished maps, OR they could not do that, just ignore the whiners and instead tell their artists to move onto more maps, so we get a bigger game :D
ffordesoon wrote:I love how people are shocked that the game looks like the screenshots we've been seeing all throughout development. It's almost as if the game has a small budget! :o

Spoiler alert, guys: this is how the game looks.

Apparently ffordesoon was thinking along the same lines.



PS: I actually said: "if this screenshot is of a "finished" location,"
I never claimed that it was "FINAL"

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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by Woolfe » August 8th, 2013, 1:24 am

Hey I'm not arguing against you, I was just answering that little snippet at the end. :D

Explaining my thought processes. For me I didn't see much wrong in what I thought of as an Alpha. In fact the only thing I thought was a little odd was the way the spectator was holding his arm. But even that I figured just needed a touch of polish + presumably it is an animation, so you know, if not for the still it probably wouldn't look that bad.

I think as an Alpha it is good, and I like the progression they have made with the release of each alpha. Generally I don't get to see the image properly until after a chunk of people have already commented so most times I find any issues I might have are already mentioned. So I just nod in that persons direction.

Constructive criticism is good, and as BN points out, is wanted.
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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by tomatpaburk » August 8th, 2013, 2:05 am

Fair enough :D

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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by MJFERN » August 8th, 2013, 5:36 am

Ronin73 wrote:
Brother None wrote: This is an alpha screenshot, of course it's not final. Same goes for the video, pre-alpha to alpha.

This is a fresh reminder that you usually don't get to see games in this stage, and that it really does require a different mindset from the usual judging of PR-polished screenshots.

PS: that's not to say "don't criticize", of course, just "try not to criticize as if it's final".
It's astonishing how often this needs to be explained. It's like every screenshot needs to have "Not Final" in the initial post to avoid repetitiveness.

I dare say the graphics won't be a finished product by the time beta rolls around, either.

Perspective people :)
Perspective? Do rabid gamers have this?

I totally agree on the astonishing.

Personally, as much as I want this game to be in my hands yesterday, I want a good game more. And since it's not in our greedy little mitts just yet, I figure it's "not final" with every piece of info or screen shot that we get.

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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by ffordesoon » August 8th, 2013, 11:40 am

@dorkboy:

Of course I've looked at the details. The environment art in Torment is some of the best ever created. My point is only that if you didn't have the writing to fill in the details, Torment's non-companion NPC models would be virtually interchangeable. My point is that it's not the graphics that matter (though great graphics obviously don't hurt), it's how the game treats the graphics. Are they an end unto themselves, or one part of a larger whole? The latter is always better, if not necessarily for sales.

@Tomatpaburk:

I still think the screenshot looks fine, if a bit rough, and I do not believe it must look significantly better on release, nor do I expect it to. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to better visuals, either. I'm not a graphics whore, but I'm not one of those people who's still smarting from the revelation that the game will not be exclusively top-down and tile-based, either. I like looking at them pretty pictures. My post was intended as a reality check, not a "Git offa mah lawn, youngster!" curmudgeonly rant. My point was that it's probably not going to look much better than it does now, so adjust your expectations accordingly.

That being said, I did forget that the game is still in alpha. I apologize for that. Guess I'm still not used to the time it takes to develop a game. ;)
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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by Tarhiel » August 8th, 2013, 12:56 pm

Picture looks fantastic, considering s alpha :)
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Re: New Highpool screenshot

Post by kopi » August 8th, 2013, 4:08 pm

The only thing looking good in this picture are the rocks. The grass is still horrible. Oh my god how can you not see this.

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