Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

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shaigunjoe
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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by shaigunjoe » August 10th, 2013, 3:06 pm

bdo7 wrote:Wow, priest, I think you're working REALLY hard to create a problem there. :P

Field medic = can be used in combat, minor healing

Surgeon = cannot be used in combat, major healing

...pretty standard CRPG stuff, I thought.

Also, there is no mention of class anywhere. You made that part up, I'm afraid. It's OK to call someone a name based on their skill set. If a guy is really good at fixing cars, you call that guy a mechanic. That doesn't automatically mean he can't play the piano. He's not "limited" to a "mechanic class." It's just one thing he's good at.

If you have one guy on your team with medical skills, you'll probably think of him as your medic. He may also have the highest demolition skill, too. So?

As long as he doesn't get the gauze confused with the C4, I'm really not seeing a problem. :lol:
He never said they explicitly mentioned class.

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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by Woolfe » August 10th, 2013, 7:02 pm

bdo7 wrote: Field medic = can be used in combat, minor healing

Surgeon = cannot be used in combat, major healing
I would have said

Surgeon = Not as effective in combat, major healing outside
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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by Drool » August 10th, 2013, 8:37 pm

Zombra wrote:Eh, it's just the way the guy phrased it while talking out loud.
I think that's something we should all keep in mind. Just like we need to remember the screen shots are alpha and not the finished product, these interviews also aren't finished product. They're a great source of information, but... well, they're prone to the idiosyncrasies of the speaker, and text interviews are pretty terrible about tone of voice, like sarcasm.

Like that bit about the super-awesome skill or whatever at the end of the game? That almost reads like a big joke.
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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by Crosmando » August 11th, 2013, 8:40 am

Combat-shooting? Yes it sounded weird how he said it (or how the translation phrased it).

All the more need for a definitive and final skill list to be released.
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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by Priest4hire » August 12th, 2013, 4:46 am

I was, of course, basing my comment not only on the article but also the original excuse for splitting the medical skills from back when the list was first released. I'm kinda surprised no one called me on it since I referred to things not explicitly stated in said article. And I find it curious that the defense of that excuse has universally been to jettison it entirely. Now it's just arbitrary. Or perhaps the new, better excuse can be "Thus spoke Zombra!"
Also, there is no mention of class anywhere. You made that part up, I'm afraid. It's OK to call someone a name based on their skill set. If a guy is really good at fixing cars, you call that guy a mechanic. That doesn't automatically mean he can't play the piano. He's not "limited" to a "mechanic class." It's just one thing he's good at.


I missed that the first time I read that post. Unless you honestly think that combat literally transforms the human body, that analogy is terrible. I got one for you: It's more like an elite mechanic being unable to jump start some guy's stalled car on the side of the road. Build a car's electrical system from scratch? He's all over that. Line up the black and red clamps on two batteries? Instantly chokes. Convenient that.

Imagine doing surgery to extract a bullet, stitch organs back together and stop lethal hemorrhaging. Without IV fluids, blood, proper tools, proper lighting, proper drugs, a surgical room, trained aid, specialists or intensive care. What would you need to know? Everything from anesthesiology to infection control to managing blood loss to human anatomy. If he could do that consistently, he'd be a medical god. And he can't apply a pressure bandage in a fight?

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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by ffordesoon » August 12th, 2013, 6:11 am

Priest4hire wrote:I was, of course, basing my comment not only on the article but also the original excuse for splitting the medical skills from back when the list was first released. I'm kinda surprised no one called me on it since I referred to things not explicitly stated in said article. And I find it curious that the defense of that excuse has universally been to jettison it entirely. Now it's just arbitrary. Or perhaps the new, better excuse can be "Thus spoke Zombra!"
Also, there is no mention of class anywhere. You made that part up, I'm afraid. It's OK to call someone a name based on their skill set. If a guy is really good at fixing cars, you call that guy a mechanic. That doesn't automatically mean he can't play the piano. He's not "limited" to a "mechanic class." It's just one thing he's good at.


I missed that the first time I read that post. Unless you honestly think that combat literally transforms the human body, that analogy is terrible. I got one for you: It's more like an elite mechanic being unable to jump start some guy's stalled car on the side of the road. Build a car's electrical system from scratch? He's all over that. Line up the black and red clamps on two batteries? Instantly chokes. Convenient that.

Imagine doing surgery to extract a bullet, stitch organs back together and stop lethal hemorrhaging. Without IV fluids, blood, proper tools, proper lighting, proper drugs, a surgical room, trained aid, specialists or intensive care. What would you need to know? Everything from anesthesiology to infection control to managing blood loss to human anatomy. If he could do that consistently, he'd be a medical god. And he can't apply a pressure bandage in a fight?
Nope!

Moving right along...
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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by bdo7 » August 12th, 2013, 8:26 am

Priest, I misunderstood you. I thought your objection was to the use of the word "medic" to describe a member of the team. (I.E. calling him a "medic" limited him to a "class.")

But I think what you're saying is that someone who understands surgery should be able to perform "lesser" medical treatments as well as complex surgery, is that right?

While I'm not necessarily sure that follows (real-life EMTs, for example, have a completely different skill set from heart surgeons), at least I see your point now.

Actually, in reality, there are hundreds of different "skills" for medical professionals, and they don't really overlap much.

A knee replacement specialist pretty much just replaces knees. He wouldn't know where to begin with brain surgery, open-heart surgery, or even a throat infection.

I have a friend who is a transplant nephrologist. She swaps kidneys. That's it. Show her a broken leg, and she'd have to fall back on whatever training she picked up in Girl Scouts or whatever.

In short, I think we should be thankful that there are ONLY two medical skills. This is a vast simplification for the sake of playability. Sure, we could simplify it even further and have only one, but then again, we could only have one combat skill, too. Like Combat Shooting! :)

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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by Zombra » August 12th, 2013, 8:52 am

Priest4hire wrote:I was, of course, basing my comment not only on the article but also the original excuse for splitting the medical skills from back when the list was first released. I'm kinda surprised no one called me on it since I referred to things not explicitly stated in said article. And I find it curious that the defense of that excuse has universally been to jettison it entirely. Now it's just arbitrary.
First off, the initial uproar over separate skills was when they first released the list 8 months ago. You want to maybe remind us what this "excuse" that you're complaining about was?
He'd be a medical god. And he can't apply a pressure bandage in a fight?
So wait ... you're not complaining about "character classes" at all? You're just angry that there are systems for two separate skills in the game?

I really have no idea where you are coming from here.
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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by Brother None » August 15th, 2013, 8:18 am

Talking inXile's history
RPS: How long had you had the idea to do a Wasteland 2 before you finally could do it?

Fargo: 2002. Well, when did I get the mark? 2004. I take that back. 2004. But I’d wanted to do something with it. It was one of the first marks that I got. I thought it was going to be an easy pitch, especially because I had it, and then I was trying to get things going, but then Fallout 3 came out from Bethesda and sold like five million copies. Okay. This is fantastic. I executive produced Wasteland and Fallout. I got one of the designers from Fallout, Jason Anderson, working here. And I had Mike Stackpole, one of the original designers of Wasteland. I have the perfect pitch. I thought, based upon Bethesda’s success, that it would be easy. Nope. No way.

RPS: They’re very different sorts of games at this point.

Fargo: Yeah. They are different. But here’s the best part. As painful as it was [to be turned down so much], I’m glad it never happened any other way. The game we’re making now, that’s the game I wanted to make. I don’t know that, if it had been financed a different way, or with a partner along the way, that I’d be able to do it the way that I’m doing now. It was the best thing for the product.

There was a keynote at GDC Shanghai at the end of 2011. It was about the death of the narrative role-playing game. I would go to Singapore and China and they’d say, “What about Bard’s Tale? What about Wasteland?” I’d always get asked about it. It was all about free-to-play and where that market was going. It’s hard to do a narrative when I’m focusing every bit of my effort on how to get money out of your pocket. It’s a different kind of experience. So it was all about how it was kind of sad that I didn’t see how those games could be made anymore. It was not even six months later that we had the Kickstarter.
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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by Hiver » August 17th, 2013, 11:16 pm

Priest4hire wrote:
Imagine doing surgery to extract a bullet, stitch organs back together and stop lethal hemorrhaging. Without IV fluids, blood, proper tools, proper lighting, proper drugs, a surgical room, trained aid, specialists or intensive care. What would you need to know? Everything from anesthesiology to infection control to managing blood loss to human anatomy. If he could do that consistently, he'd be a medical god. And he can't apply a pressure bandage in a fight?
I already pointed out all of that and more. Warned about how such forced fake split ultimately failed in Fallout games too.
Ended up getting a seven day ban so as to "stop talking".

We are now in the stage where only the yesmen are listened too since that conforms with whatever the team likes and all others are considered the "enemies of the team".

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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by Drool » August 17th, 2013, 11:56 pm

Hiver wrote:We are now in the stage where only the yesmen are listened too since that conforms with whatever the team likes and all others are considered the "enemies of the team".
Yup. There's no differing opinions on this forum. Every screen shot and update is greeted with nothing but universal praise.
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Re: Rock Paper Shotgun previews Wasteland 2

Post by Ronin73 » August 18th, 2013, 2:12 am

Call me crazy, but I'd like to see the the two medical skills applied in game before I draw any conclusions.
The biggest failure in the recent past is this assumption that the audience is not smart.Too much effort is being spent making it dummy proof..all the clues are being held right in front of their nose.The exploration and journey is the reward

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