Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by undecaf » May 31st, 2013, 7:43 am

snakeoil wrote:Image
Making the item picture and description part of the interface "device" - good. Very nice.

Lowering the visible inventoryspace even further, not good at all. But I give you that considering the 5 minutes it took you to make it.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Racmo » May 31st, 2013, 7:45 am

I was really hoping for something more like the inventory system created in the community 1.13 mod of Jagged Alliance 2.
Wearing a tactical vest over a normal jacket would open up more item slots for the player to put relevant items (gun holster can hold 1 extra ammo clip next to the revolver/pistol, gun belt can hold multiple ammo clips etc. and higher quality backpacks/belts/vests can hold more items).
Grabbing these items out of your smaller pockets would require less action points during turn-based sections. In the heat of battle, trying to find that one specific ammo clip in your enormous backpack should require more effort than grabbing one out of a vest pocket.

Image

Large backpacks can consist out of one or more large boxes, plus some smaller boxes. The larger boxes will hold rifles and other large items, or they could be used to make a larger stacking of smaller items. For example, small box can be used to stack 2 ammo clips, large box for a stacking of 4 ammo clips.

Edit: some more details on how the modding community decided on redefining the inventory system.
http://ja2guides.wikidot.com/newinv

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by malthaussen » May 31st, 2013, 7:50 am

natraj wrote:I like the inventory.

But, taking a look a the sniper rifle...please, don't make weapons ridiculously big in comparison to characters. I'm so fed up with this WOW-style graphics...
That was my reaction as well. Inventory is fine, but those weapons have got to go. They look friggin' ridiculous.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by kgambit » May 31st, 2013, 8:14 am

snakeoil wrote:Image

just a slightly different version, photoshopped in 5mins...

concerning "cartoony" i dont see a problem understanding this term, it just means "out of proportions". the guns just look ridiculous... even the coyote couldnt shoot his own head with that giant rifles.
- agree about the weapon proportions: they just look too big to me
- the original layout with the pop-up 3D paper doll and the weapon notes with the paper clip looks good to me ; I would not change anything on it
- I prefer the orange text/symbols versus green - but I could go either way
Image

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by TΛPETRVE » May 31st, 2013, 8:22 am

Woolfe wrote:I don't like the Green. Or the yellow overly much.

What about white on Blue? Like a lot of the Bios screens? Or the Commodore 64 and similar systems?
The green is, again, too much connected to Fallout in my opinion. The yellow would be fine, as it was pretty common in late-80s monochrome monitors. But blue is a neat idea, too.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Woolfe » May 31st, 2013, 8:34 am

TΛPETRVE wrote:
Woolfe wrote:I don't like the Green. Or the yellow overly much.

What about white on Blue? Like a lot of the Bios screens? Or the Commodore 64 and similar systems?
The green is, again, too much connected to Fallout in my opinion. The yellow would be fine, as it was pretty common in late-80s monochrome monitors. But blue is a neat idea, too.
Bah... the C64 worked on Tv's and those things lasted forever. Up until about 6 or 7 years ago they ran the timetable display system for the train network here in Brissy.

It was so amusing to be going to jump on the train and there was a c64 page just waiting for someone to type Load"*",8,1 :D

I am pretty sure a lot of the ibm compatibles used other colour systems in the late 80's as well. Altho .... it might have been early 90's.... Starting to blur together dammit...

snakeoil wrote:concerning "cartoony" i dont see a problem understanding this term, it just means "out of proportions". the guns just look ridiculous... even the coyote couldnt shoot his own head with that giant rifles.
No it does not. A "cartoon" is, as I have pointed out many times now. A 2d illustrated visual art. An animated cartoon is a film made using a series of illustrated visual art.
Thus a cartoon technically only applies to the individual stills. And it applies equally to the realistic but drawn images as to the unrealistic, out of proportion images. Indeed ALL animation in a game could be considered a "cartoon" or animated cartoon.
But to reduce it down to the "limited" usage you and others have been attempting to apply it on. It doesn't adequately describe the issue, because art and imagery is subjective.
So rather than using a term that does NOT describe what you mean. Why don't you simply describe what you mean. For example "The rifle appears out of proportion to the rest of the body".
This not only avoids arguments about what is and isn't a "cartoon", but more importantly it actually describes the problem you have with something.
So that when the DEVS read it, they can better understand what you mean, rather than them applying their own definition of a cartoon which based on the fact that they drew the thing in the first place, is clearly different to your opinion.
Last edited by Woolfe on May 31st, 2013, 8:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Wilder » May 31st, 2013, 8:38 am

I like the yellow backlit buttons... reminds me of the incandescent backlights used on a lot of analog devices back in the day. Neutral on the green. But i definitely have an issue with the disproportionate artwork - the oversized guns etc. I'd like a little more realism here.
Like what I'm seeing overall.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Crosmando » May 31st, 2013, 8:39 am

Why does the pictures of the weapons have to be on that paper card thing, it looks out of place set against the electronic/technical looking interface, even something like this would be better for descriptions:
Image

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zombra » May 31st, 2013, 8:47 am

Not sure what you did exactly snakeoil, except change the color to green and get rid of the index cards. I like the index cards ... and green, amber, I don't care. Forgive me for taking a page from Fallout 3, but didn't it let you pick your HUD colors? If I had my choice, it would be cyan on blue, of course :geek:

-----

But that's not why I'm posting. This isn't inventory criticism, but Chris said ALL feedback is helpful!

Someone above said that character text is hard to read and portraits are too small. Strongly agree. Even in 1080p, I could barely make out the text and images on the character bar. Why is there so much vertical space wasted between characters? That won't help to fit seven characters down the side! Let's use a little more of that space to feature our beloved hand-picked portraits. Good use of real estate is important.

Image

---------

Secondly, I was pretty horrified by the graphics at the beginning of the video. I REALLY hope that we are seeing the "minimum saturation for Fallout fans" option.

Image

To me that looks like a big ball of mud :( Even Señor Mariachi doesn't pop at all. I can only make out his sombrero because I already know it's there! In-game graphics need far more color and above all, MORE CONTRAST.
Last edited by Zombra on May 31st, 2013, 8:56 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by malthaussen » May 31st, 2013, 8:48 am

snakeoil wrote:Image

just a slightly different version, photoshopped in 5mins...
For most of the 80's, my display was a 9" CCTV b/w monitor. I was using an Apple then, and didn't own a portable color TV. When I switched to PC clones and a color monitor, I had all sorts of fun trying different display combos. For some reason, I associate orange on black to HP products in the time period, whereas most screens were white on black and could hand out some serious eyestrain after awhile. The orange is less harsh than the green, to my eye.

FWIW, I like this arrangement much more than the video. This seems more cohesive, more integrated. I don't mind much the limiting of items on display. I didn't know there was so much hatred of scrolling lists. I think it must be a matter of pace, I tend to take things slow and easy rather than trying to maximize efficiency.

I also agree with an earlier comment someone made suggesting that the character portraits be a bit larger. There does seem to be a lot more dead space in the interfaces seen so far than necessary, but this may also be a function of the desire to make these interfaces fully customizable.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zombra » May 31st, 2013, 9:08 am

Oh, another inventory request: hotkeys, hotkeys, HOTKEYS.

Drag and drop is intuitive but slow and annoying. Highlight item, shift-3. Item has been traded to character #3. Keyboard shortcuts for power players. Thank you.

That's right, I just referred to myself as a POWER PLAYER. Deal. :lol:
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Lucius » May 31st, 2013, 9:17 am

Zombra wrote:Yucky contrast at start of video
I agree here. I think the image is at night, but everything is black. You cant make out any details and it looks really bad, imo. The contrast is all wrong, even as the Fallout-esque bland version.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Harpo » May 31st, 2013, 9:55 am

Hi.

I like:
  • 1. The combination of list and inventory body slots. Looks nice.
    2. How the favorite option ties into the looting. This is an extremely good idea!
I dislike:
  • 1. The space reserved for the actual inventory list seems too small.
    2. The GUI looks cluttered. When I look at this I have no idea where to focus my attention. The different color themes, materials, lights, knobs and other miscellaneous stuff is all screaming for attention. Other similar games - like Fallout - manages better to add to the atmosphere of the game through the interface in a more discrete fashion, which takes the focus of the interface itself and highlights the contained information instead. I suggest a more uniform interface theme throughout the game that uses a more discreet (or aligned) color theme.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by skin » May 31st, 2013, 9:57 am

This was posted on the Codex (credit goes to St. Toxic):

I really like the way the item slots are arranged. Not a fan of the notepad look for the item descriptions. This looks way better.

Link to the post http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.ph ... st-2688682

Image

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Harpo » May 31st, 2013, 10:08 am

skin wrote:This was posted on the Codex (credit goes to St. Toxic):

I really like the way the item slots are arranged. Not a fan of the notepad look for the item descriptions. This looks way better.

Link to the post http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.ph ... st-2688682

<Image removed>
A great improvement indeed;
Less clutter - more business,
Better grouping of functions,
Shorter drag-and-drop distance to other group members

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by ffordesoon » May 31st, 2013, 10:10 am

Racmo wrote:I was really hoping for something more like the inventory system created in the community 1.13 mod of Jagged Alliance 2.
Wearing a tactical vest over a normal jacket would open up more item slots for the player to put relevant items (gun holster can hold 1 extra ammo clip next to the revolver/pistol, gun belt can hold multiple ammo clips etc. and higher quality backpacks/belts/vests can hold more items).
Grabbing these items out of your smaller pockets would require less action points during turn-based sections. In the heat of battle, trying to find that one specific ammo clip in your enormous backpack should require more effort than grabbing one out of a vest pocket.

Image

Large backpacks can consist out of one or more large boxes, plus some smaller boxes. The larger boxes will hold rifles and other large items, or they could be used to make a larger stacking of smaller items. For example, small box can be used to stack 2 ammo clips, large box for a stacking of 4 ammo clips.

Edit: some more details on how the modding community decided on redefining the inventory system.
http://ja2guides.wikidot.com/newinv
That looks unbearably awful for Wasteland 2, I gotta say. Maybe it works great in JA2, but that's JA2.

@inXile:

Couple of additional notes:

A search bar like SkyUI's would be fantastic, as would this "wildcard" search people keep proposing (why is it called that?).

If you change the size of the inventory slots (to, say, ten per page?), don't make the slots too small. I like the nice wide chunk of clickable space y'all have now. I think some people here are operating under the assumption that we'll be getting Skyrim or Deus Ex: HR levels of loot, and I don't see that being the case. Just do mousewheel scrolling and make it really fast. If you haven't stuffed the game full of pointless loot, that should be more than enough.

I like the icons a lot. They're easily readable at a glance and not full of pointless visual noise. If there's a drawing of a gun and a photograph of a gun that's the same size, the photo will be more difficult to read at a glance, because a photo contains a lot of ancillary detail that a drawing doesn't. You have drawings and pictures of the 3D models. That's plenty. Stick with that approach. There'll be a mod for people who want the models to be on the list, I guarantee it - maybe even before the mod kit comes out! Keep the UI functional and readable for the rest of us.

I'm assuming the font in the weapon name column is a placeholder font, but just in case, I think the font used to display the names of the tabs (Courier New?) should be the unified font for all interface elements except the cards, which need a slightly more ragged - but still readable - font.
snakeoil wrote:Image

just a slightly different version, photoshopped in 5mins...
I actually like it quite a bit, but it's a good argument for the flipout screen if it's anything. The 3D models look wildly out of place against the minimalist UI elements, as if they're being beamed in from the future (or the past that never was, as the case may be). The flipout screen with the brief moment of static, by contrast, reads as a separate video feed. And the 3D model almost certainly has to be there if we want a paper doll, as I'd imagine they don't have the time or money to blow on creating a separate 2D illustration of every single possible inventory configuration for both male and female characters. I think I remember Chris or Brother None saying that at one point.

The flipout screen animation is growing on me, I think. If the static started earlier and the animation was smoother and quicker, it would be a neat visual flourish, and there's something to be said for a neat visual flourish. They make the layperson go "Ooh, neato!" when you're playing the game in front of them, and that's a potential sale right there. I do support having the ability to turn it off, however.
Zombra wrote:Not sure what you did exactly snakeoil, except change the color to green and get rid of the index cards. I like the index cards ... and green, amber, I don't care. Forgive me for taking a page from Fallout 3, but didn't it let you pick your HUD colors? If I had my choice, it would be cyan on blue, of course :geek:
You know, this is probably me asking to get flamed, but I'm gonna say it anyway, because it is totally true: Fallout 3's inventory system had its problems, and it was obviously designed for consoles first and foremost, but it was a pretty damn decent inventory system, and a hell of a lot better than the utter abomination that was the inventory system of the Interplay Fallouts. Bethesda stayed true to the "this is a device in the world" spirit of the original UI, but did a wonderful job of fitting it to their needs, and New Vegas only improved upon it.

And the color customization feature was terrific, and should be in this.
But that's not why I'm posting. This isn't inventory criticism, but Chris said ALL feedback is helpful!

Someone above said that character text is hard to read and portraits are too small. Strongly agree. Even in 1080p, I could barely make out the text and images on the character bar. Why is there so much vertical space wasted between characters? That won't help to fit seven characters down the side! Let's use a little more of that space to feature our beloved hand-picked portraits. Good use of real estate is important.

Image
Completely agree.
Secondly, I was pretty horrified by the graphics at the beginning of the video. I REALLY hope that we are seeing the "minimum saturation for Fallout fans" option.

Image

To me that looks like a big ball of mud :( Even Señor Mariachi doesn't pop at all. I can only make out his sombrero because I already know it's there! In-game graphics need far more color and above all, MORE CONTRAST.
I liked the graphics at the beginning of the video, but you speak the truth. HEED HIM, INXILE! :)
Zombra wrote:Oh, another inventory request: hotkeys, hotkeys, HOTKEYS.

Drag and drop is intuitive but slow and annoying. Highlight item, shift-3. Item has been traded to character #3. Keyboard shortcuts for power players. Thank you.

That's right, I just referred to myself as a POWER PLAYER. Deal. :lol:
They mentioned hotkeys in the update, I think.
skin wrote:This was posted on the Codex (credit goes to St. Toxic):

I really like the way the item slots are arranged. Not a fan of the notepad look for the item descriptions. This looks way better.

Link to the post http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.ph ... st-2688682

Image
That's pretty good, I must admit.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Crosmando » May 31st, 2013, 10:26 am

Yes that is very good. The picture of the item spotlighted on the screen is far better than the paper card thing. Well done Mr Toxic.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Dr_Chaos » May 31st, 2013, 10:39 am

Lucius wrote:looking at the picture above, I like the item pic at the bottom as well. The green however, no. That hurts my eyes. I suggest getting rid of the green from all UI elements, such as the health bars and mouseover of items in game. I definitely prefer the yellowish. I'll also echo what I've said before, get rid of the machinery in the UI, inventory and otherwise. It's clearly confusing some folks.
I absolutely love the green, looking at the edited screen, it made a difference for me visually. It's easy on the eyes and pleasing, very retro and energetic. But then again, I managed to play through the entirety of Fallout 3 with all the text and menus modded to red and thought it was awesome. I have a high tolerance for pain. Made spotting enemies on the compass annoying but that was one badass pip-boy.

The yellowish/orange stuff is abit too much of an eye sore for me personally. Whenever I see orange or yellow menus, it makes me think of vomit and waste. Last time I saw an all amberish hud/menu was in New Vegas and I had to change it immediately. I get why Obsidian and InXile like it, it feels very old west but I'm not a fan.

We really need options to change the colors.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Vlk » May 31st, 2013, 11:04 am

i think the size of the weapons are out of proportion because of the isometric view, so you can identify what weapons everyone is using from a distance, but in the inventory screen it's just look big and heavy.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Dr_Chaos » May 31st, 2013, 11:17 am

I always have a hard time critiquing the general look of things in Wasteland 2. It was never meant to look like a AAA title from a giant publisher and I think the visuals in general look good for the budget they've been dealt but that doesn't mean there aren't things they could improve on, I just have a hard time figuring out what those are sometimes and what to say without being unreasonable or just giving anyone a free pass.

I do agree about the font. That seems a lil too generic or I guess common looking. A game needs a solid strong text style to it, something that feels abit more professional. It sticks out abit, not a lot but it's noticable.

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