Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Woolfe » May 30th, 2013, 10:20 pm

Other People wrote: cartoony
Must resist.... same argument... 100th time.... arrg....
Drool wrote:I quite liked it. It seems very functional, and I've always preferred list-based systems. Some random thoughts:

1) I like the little electricity-zappy thing.
Me too, but it was a bit too frequent perhaps?
Drool wrote:2) The favorites tab is wonderful. Is there also an "everything" tab?
And a "Party" Tab
Drool wrote:6) Will there be some kind of segregation between PC gear and NPC gear?
Isn't it already segregated on the left? Hence the dragging of items(broken toaster anyone) onto specific people?
Or do you mean from the point of view of will gear be given to the NPC's to carry based on the auto pickup etc, and then maybe have problems getting said gear back off the NPC?
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by harborpirate » May 30th, 2013, 10:35 pm

I love it so far.

I wanted to chime in to voice my support for the following three suggestions that I've seen:
1. Color coded equipment types instead of orange for everything.
2. A "junk" status, similar to favorites except it makes that item hidden unless actually looking at the "junk" category.
3. Loadouts, to group equipment sets for rapidly changing part or all of a characters equipped items.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Jukkahvi » May 30th, 2013, 10:42 pm

You're doing great job. So I'll just blast the negatives I found.

As proportions on characters and weapons aren't 1/1. Show the paperdoll figure from an angle that is more in line with the game we see them. Doesn't break immersion of your characters in inventory. Leaves something for imagination. Like face expressions and stuff.

Color for ingame UI is green. Don't change the color for inventory screen to orange. Keep it green 'n' lean.

You guys rock!

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Helion Tide » May 30th, 2013, 10:45 pm

Woolfe wrote:
Other People wrote: cartoony
Must resist.... same argument... 100th time.... arrg....
Well, assuming I am one of those "other people", lol, in my defense, the only point I made referring to a cartoon-ish style was not in a demeaning way or in favour of something else. I'm all for a cartoon aesthetic or a silly style, as long as it is consistent and it is executed well. So far, for me, the UI elements have been lacking visually and in consistency. The layouts are great, very functional and will be a pleasure to navigate, but visually they just don't please the eye or make sense, personally. I know functionality is more important than visuals, but it's also just as tricky to achieve believable 3-dimensional 2D art, and there's no harm in wanting the best of both worlds.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by ffordesoon » May 30th, 2013, 10:57 pm

Would saying "I came" be in bad taste? :lol:

I love it. It sounds weird, but I think this video and the accompanying update text actually ratcheted my excitement for the game up more notches than the seventeen minutes of alpha footage did. Which is impressive, because that footage exceeded all my expectations and made me very excited indeed.

Thing is, I expected the "game" part of the game to look at least moderately cool. I've played plenty of games that demoed well and only fell down over extended periods of play. Diablo III springs to mind. In fairness, it's not a bad game, and even if you disagree with that statement, you have to admit that the UI is excellent. It's the example I thought of first, not the one that best supports my argument. That game would probably be vanilla Skyrim, which I love to death despite its UI being janky (or the pain box from Dune, depending on your choice of input device).

But the inventory screen is something that even the AAA RPG devs who spend eighty mil on their games never seem to do passably. Diablolikes and JRPGs are the only games that do it even moderately well. Oh, and Kingdoms Of Amalur's was pretty alright. But by and large, inventory screens somehow manage to, in the immortal words of one Bartholomew J. Simpson, "both suck and blow." It's often so dreadfully clear that no thought whatsoever went into them beyond getting what needed to be there up on the screen.

"User experience!? Pfahaha!" says the bloated Dickensian grotesque who I have quite unfairly chosen to represent AAA publisher dudes in my imagination. Oh, and he's got like a cigar and practically inhales bags of Cheetos. "'Usability' doesn't ship by Q3," says this globe-shaped creature, puffing out an acrid haze of tobacco-smothered flavor crystals that sting the downcast eyes of the innocent, naïve QA tester brave enough to report that the inventory system is a bit crap. And then that dude gets thrown in the wolf pit that's next to the QA department for some reason, and he is torn apart as a lesson for the others. And the bossman goes back to his game of Farmville and wonders what all that microtransaction money could buy him. Perhaps another Ferrari? The lifelong servitude of a Thai ladyboy? An opportunity to hunt the most dangerous game? Only time - and Real Racing 3 - will tell.

And it will tell him what he wants to hear. Oh yes. He has seen to it. His enemies will die with his name on their lips. And as blood pours from their slit throats, the hideous slime-coated face of Shub-Niggurath will open wide her infinite maw and consume their shuddering souls. Yes. She will feast well tonight. Yes.

...

Wait, what was I talking about? Oh, right, the inventory.

Anyway, a few random gibberings to wrap this up:

I'll second the complaints about the animation of the screen flipping up. It's cool, but anything that gets between me and doing what I need to do on the inventory screen for any length of time whatsoever is pointless and will get extermely aggravating over the course of a full playthrough. No animations besides that one bother me, though I confess the electricity coursing through the thingy does seem a little out of place - without a backstory, anyway.

I kinda like the exaggerated Looney Tunes "huge sniper rifle out of the character's pocket" animation, actually. It fits with the Wasteland sensibility, IMHO.

This game better be sans Comic Sans when it comes out. That font is just the worst.

In re double-click to equip: THANK YOU.

In re mouse-over stats: THANK YOU.

In re mariachi Rangers: THANK YOU.

In re item descriptions: THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

I am very pleased, ladies and gentlemen of inXile. Very pleased indeed. Any tweaks should be easy, because you've got the functionality down pat. If other systems are similarly mindful of the user's experience in their design, and the writing is as good as it seems to be, Wasteland 2 will exceed the original and the Interplay Fallout games in every way that matters. I can't wait. :D
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Dunkare » May 30th, 2013, 10:57 pm

looking good so far. though id prefer if the pic and the details would be shown below the list, feels more natural to me. but thats not important.

about the inventory management, i think it would be best if there was one single party inventory that gets slots added or removed depending on the size of the party and their ability to carry stuff.
things that suddenly become too much - for example if some char decides to leave the group in the middle of nowhere - could be moved to an overflow-inventory, from which you cant use them until you moved them back into regular inventory or a storage. maybe have the player decide, which items are moved to overflow.
party members could still each have their favourites for faster use, i really like that idea.

if you absolutely want to keep the individual inventories, my suggestion would be, to have one list that shows all the items all the characters are carrying, like in the video, but with an additional collumn where the owner is shown (the party member that is currently holding the item).
to make transfers easy, maybe the owners name could be a dropdown menu, that allows to quickly move stuff from one character to next. only showing characters that are able to carry the specific item(s) of course - and only outside of battle.
except maybe you add skills like "throw" and "catch" that allow to exchange items during battle over a certain distance.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Helion Tide » May 30th, 2013, 11:03 pm

Since I'm not very articulate when it comes to explaining myself in "art-speak", I thought I'd upload a quick image of an interface from a library I recently discovered. This instantly reminded me of an old-school post apocalyptic vibe, and is a clear example of my personal preference on 2D artwork selling the 3D effect, well, effectively. It's not the greatest art out there, but it was the first thing that came to mind as an example.

If a weathered metal, cartoon-esque theme is the goal, that's perfectly fine, and perhaps it was all along, but the execution and quality of the art isn't really up to par in my books to sell the effect of the elements containing 3-dimensionality. Hard edges, cables, screws, glass screens, tubes, intricate electronics -- these are all great elements to utilize if they are executed well. If they aren't, personally, they do more harm than good.

Again, I can't stress this enough -- functionally, the UI is brilliant. It's going to be an absolute cakewalk to use and it makes perfect sense in regards to the layout. Incredibly pleased with everything so far.

Thoughts?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Sensuki » May 30th, 2013, 11:18 pm

While the functionality is cool, the Inventory screen looks like the people who designed the look of it forgot that this isn't a console game. You can have all that functionality in a grid inventory btw.

Only showing 8 items at a time as well? come on.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by lucid » May 30th, 2013, 11:31 pm

The Inventory is Looking Good!

1. I'm sure it's just the video (or my internet browser's ability to play the video) but the frame-rate seemed kind of low. Hopefully the shipped game has good inventory framerate.

2. It wasn't discussed in the video, but I also hope there's a system in place to view the combined inventory of all party members, so we don't have to scroll through each party member to get an idea of the total inventory.

Otherwise, looking good. Can't wait for the finished product!

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Woolfe » May 30th, 2013, 11:32 pm

Helion Tide wrote: Well, assuming I am one of those "other people", lol, in my defense, the only point I made referring to a cartoon-ish style was not in a demeaning way or in favour of something else. I'm all for a cartoon aesthetic or a silly style, as long as it is consistent and it is executed well. So far, for me, the UI elements have been lacking visually and in consistency. The layouts are great, very functional and will be a pleasure to navigate, but visually they just don't please the eye or make sense, personally. I know functionality is more important than visuals, but it's also just as tricky to achieve believable 3-dimensional 2D art, and there's no harm in wanting the best of both worlds.
All good... my argument is that the term "Cartoony" is so broad as to make it meaningless. Much better to describe the issue than use a term that means different things to different people and will result in people whinging at each other. :lol:
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zombra » May 30th, 2013, 11:47 pm

Sensuki wrote:Only showing 8 items at a time as well? come on.
Hmm, you know, there's a little dead space in the item listing*. I think if they eliminated the unnecessary (?) "Type" column**, they could fit in twice as many items. Displaying 16 at once instead of 8 might be nice.

*Assuming that there aren't a lot of items like
"<--- xXDoctor Lengthy's Everlasting Rockets LaunchererXx --->"

**Weapon type could be displayed on the "index card" item details instead. Then again, I can see how it would be really really nice to be able to line up all your Handguns together to compare their stats on one screen. Just a thought. Maybe that part of the screen could simply be made wider.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Macbez » May 30th, 2013, 11:58 pm

It's a nice UI to start

But I think the party frame must be move more close to inventory list, the drag-and-drop traiding is to long if you need to trade more than one item to other party members.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by undecaf » May 31st, 2013, 12:37 am

The inventory looks and sounds very functional. And overall looks nice too.

However, I'm not too keen on the "Fallout 3-esque" tabbed shoppinglist design, though, and the piece of paper where the picture and description of the item kinda looks like it doesn't belong there; it kinda doesn't mesh well with the rest of the interface. It is very good to have that detailed pic and info about the item, but I think they should make that part part of the "device" like with the character portrait.

But that's it for my initial reaction nitpicking. Overall it looks, as I already said, nice and functional.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by john irwin finster » May 31st, 2013, 12:54 am

Looks amazing! Functional and pretty.

I would like to be able to sort on different stats based on the item type. For instance, if I'm in the armor column, I might want to sort by armor class.

I would also want an easy way to tell if the item had been modded, I couldn't tell If that was included.

Keep up the good work!

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Yuri » May 31st, 2013, 1:24 am

Must resist.... same argument... 100th time.... arrg....
Ignore it. It'll never ends.
I actually hate "cartoonish" styles and it's sometimes even prevents me from playing a good games... Still I fail to see anything "cartoonish" in Wasteland 2. I want the same shit they smoking.
1) I like the little electricity-zappy thing.
Me too, but it was a bit too frequent perhaps?
I tend to agree with "frequent" but I like it anyway.
And a "Party" Tab
I actually secretly hoped there will be no individual inventories but I can live with any system as long as it's ergonomic.
Color for ingame UI is green. Don't change the color for inventory screen to orange. Keep it green 'n' lean.
Yes, that was a little strange. Next we'll see a red compendium page and blue character screen ^^

Next holywar will be about weapons sizes I presume. Seems like some prefer realistic inventory image to ability to clearly see what your characters and NPCs holding in game...

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Wile » May 31st, 2013, 2:45 am

It seems functional and that's what matters, but... I'm all cool with lists and stuff, but I'm not exactly sure about the art style.

- That screen popping up looked kinda silly and gimmicky.
- Electric sparks are nice, but make them less frequent. Having a thunder storm going on all the time, is a bit distracting.
- Having even basic stats in inventory would make it easier to check, what goes down and up when I change clothing and armor.
- Comparison screen would be nice too.
- As I said earlier, art style isn't exactly consistent or that aesthetically pleasing. I expected more of used, worn and recycled 80's household items or futuristic tech, turned into this nice post-apocalyptic tablet thingy.
- Almost everything in it seems too big.

When I saw that guy holding that M16, I couldn't help but to think this:
Image
:lol: I think they aren't that distracting, though. I wouldn't really even complain about it.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by SirCannonFodder » May 31st, 2013, 3:13 am

I rather disliked the electricity effect, but as other people seem to like it, perhaps we could just get an option to disable inventory/UI animations?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Lazy Nomad » May 31st, 2013, 3:14 am

I never thought I could feel so giddy about an inventory system. I don't have too much to add beyond general approval, but I will say that I really like the 3 x 5 card in the corner. Some say that it doesn't look like it really belongs there. I say that's the whole point. What would the post-apocalyptic world be without some out of place modifications?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by The Tallest » May 31st, 2013, 3:30 am

Inventory looks amazing. Already far ahead a lot of other games. No complaints from me. I do like the idea of a Wildcard list though.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by flikera » May 31st, 2013, 3:47 am

Hello,

I haven't written for a while because up to now everything looked amazing! Great job inExile!

However today I saw the new screenshot and inventory video and I must say I'm pretty concerned.
Lighting seems messed up, the game is too dark and areas start to look the same. I know you've put a lot of effort into it and you want it to look realistic, but its dark. It's a game doesn't need to look real.

Inventory - ok, here you really got it wrong.
People don't like fallout 3 style inventory, good that you've at least heard the forums: we want nice item icons. Everywhere. Do you remember arcanum, fallout 1&2, even diablo unique items? We don't want to see digital icons and having to click through all of them to feel the beauty of a stim pack, ammo rounds or Butcher's cleaver.
Equipment capability icon and simplified text: right, I know you want to make the game simpler and easy, but please let us have an option where those childish icons can be hidden and we can have the full detailed text of an item? Please! Reference - fallout 1&2.

I know you will make the game the best!

Regards,
Flikera

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