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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 23rd, 2013, 4:10 pm
by Woolfe
:(

I like the character model. I kind of agree it doesn't need to be on the inventory screen, but if it fits.... :?:

I also don't need to see the models.... but I would like to get a slightly better view of them.

But yeah its fluff in the end. I could live without, I would prefer not to. :mrgreen:

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 23rd, 2013, 6:11 pm
by Yuri
Hiver wrote:The thing is - we dont really need to see the 3D model of our characters. We really dont.
Speak for yourself.

Also looking at latest SkyUI I'd say list inventory can be better than any alternative.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 23rd, 2013, 6:29 pm
by sparkee666
I like the model on the inventory UI. It adds some visual intrest instead of just plopping your junk in an empty spot with some glowing boxes.
Yuri wrote:
Hiver wrote:The thing is - we dont really need to see the 3D model of our characters. We really dont.
Speak for yourself.
I concur with this. :lol:

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 23rd, 2013, 10:01 pm
by Drool
Hiver wrote:did you guys just deleted my post for no reason whatsoever?
your censoring what someone says if that doesnt praise some decision you made?
Couldn't possibly have been for the flaming...
The thing is - we dont really need to see the 3D model of our characters. We really dont.
A good number of people have wanted a "paper doll", ever since it was announced that this would be an isometric/top-down game. People like to see how the equipment they wear changes how the character looks. This is difficult to do on the world map with a high camera. The paper doll allows for players to see what their characters look like. Putting it on the inventory screen makes sense because that's where the items are. If you wanted to see how a piece of armor changed your look, flipping over to the character sheet and back would just be pointless extra steps.
Looking at them from "isometric" or top down is enough for most of us - which this whole kickstarter campaign clearly points to. Right?
You're assuming a majority position that you may or may not have. I can't speak for all backers or all gamers, but it appears that the majority of forum posters are not only okay with the paper doll, but specifically wanted it.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 1:12 am
by Hiver
naturally there are always those like you.


skyUI eh? :lol:



its not that im trying to call a popular vote or speak for everyone - im pointing out a very simple logic of the situation.

- im guessing most people that backed this are just totally fine with seeing things from zoomed out isometric-top down view and dont really need these...additions. Based on a fact thats what everyone backed.

And i explained that clearly.


- oh and Inxile....

Your list inventory is there because of future planned ports to various consoles and other gaming platforms.
And it sucks.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 3:36 am
by Brother None
Hiver wrote:Your list inventory is there because of future planned ports to various consoles and other gaming platforms.
No, it's not. There are no ports planned at the moment, just personal computer platforms.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 5:05 am
by Infinitron
Brother None wrote:
Hiver wrote:Your list inventory is there because of future planned ports to various consoles and other gaming platforms.
No, it's not. There are no ports planned at the moment, just personal computer platforms.
Personal computer platforms, you say?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 5:30 am
by vyvexthorne
Love the inventory as is.. However I love Lil' Neddy even more. Now I'm just wondering if he is an npc you find in the game or if you can actually build that character. Can I build or find all Three Amigos? Most likely I'll have to add the Cisko Kid and Poncho to my party if there are enough of those hats to find in game.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 8:16 am
by Zombra
vyvexthorne wrote:I love Lil' Neddy even more. Now I'm just wondering if he is an npc you find in the game or if you can actually build that character. Can I build or find all Three Amigos?
Wonder no longer! "Lil' Neddy K" is a player character.

Note that he is not Ned Niederlander. His last initial is wrong; Ned Niederlander is a fictional character anyway; Martin Short has been dead for 100 years; plus the guy on the screen is too tall. You will not find Lucky Day or El Guapo in Wasteland 2 (at least, not the "real" Lucky Day or El Guapo).

But you will find the clothes; either someone unearthed a surprisingly well-preserved costume from the ruins of HBO Studios, or a fan of the film made the costume at some point, or a secret cult somewhere with a working VCR worships the film as the blueprint for a perfect society and made ceremonial clothes, or (most likely) someone sewed some clothes that happened to look like that. You certainly might find a guy who calls himself Dusty Bottoms for some reason, and he may or may not resemble the Chevy Chase character as closely as the devs can mimic. (I hope not. Pop culture references should be highly oblique. The existence of the clothes is great, but that's about as explicit as it should get in my opinion.)

Of course, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from making a team of Rangers based on the ¬°Amigos! or any characters you wish ... if you get a decent quality jpg of them, you can even use their portraits in the game.

The only thing stopping you would be if there is only one ¬°Amigo! costume available ... but that seems unlikely. :lol:

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 9:24 am
by Hiver
Brother None wrote:
Hiver wrote:Your list inventory is there because of future planned ports to various consoles and other gaming platforms.
No, it's not. There are no ports planned at the moment, just personal computer platforms.
:grumbles:

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 11:47 am
by ffordesoon
I like that if inXile ever ports the game to anything, Hiver's gonna be like, "AHA! SEE! SEE!" Like, even if it's ten years later. :lol:

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 10:23 pm
by Drool
Hiver wrote:its not that im trying to call a popular vote or speak for everyone
Hiver wrote:we dont really need to see the 3D model of our characters. We really dont.
Hiver wrote:Looking at them from "isometric" or top down is enough for most of us
Don't know where I could have gotten the impression that you were attempting to speak for more than just yourself.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 10:26 pm
by Brother None
Look, I'm having to keep splitting this back and forth and it's getting tiresome. Can't you guys just agree to disagree and move on, because it's kind of obvious that no real debate is going to come out of this.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 10:46 pm
by Ronin73
Hiver wrote: - oh and Inxile....

Your list inventory is there because of future planned ports to various consoles and other gaming platforms.
And it sucks.
I'm confused.

If inXile had chosen a grid inventory would this have somehow prevented Wasteland 2 from being ported to various console and other gaming platforms in the future? I personally don't care if they do, myself.

I'll admit I haven't owned a console of any kind since the ancient Atari 2600, but are list inventories really indicative of console games in general or is this statement the new "cartoony" of UI's ? (i.e. I don't really like it, so I'll throw this out as a complaint) because I've seen this comment pop up more than a few times now.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 11:24 pm
by Drool
Ronin73 wrote:but are list inventories really indicative of console games in general or is this statement the new "cartoony" of UI's ?
From what I can tell, yes and no. A list based inventory works best with a console because consoles don't have mice, therefore moving across a grid would be cumbersome, and of course they're not really equipped for drag-n-drop. However, an auto-sorting grid with context-based use (eg: X on inventory screen equips while X on shop screen sells) could work. Again, it would be cumbersome, which is why most console games with inventories go for some kind of list-based system. Likewise, games that are designed from the ground up for cross-compatibility (eg: Skyrim) are going to have list-based systems because the "console port" is part of the core design.

So, it's not so much a matter of LIST = CONSOLE as it is GRID = CAN'T BE CONSOLE.

And for some games, a grid is what you want or need. In Torchlight (since you also mentioned "cartoony"), you have a grid-based inventory system; considering it's damn near a fan-mod of Diablo 2, this isn't surprising. That being said, Torchlight (and other games like it) are inventory porn. There's huge amounts of items because there's base items and modifiers and it's all procedurally generated to give you hundreds of thousands of combinations. A list would be terrible in a game like that, and I'm someone who's default stance is to prefer a list.

There's also probably a matter of experience. Much like the single vs. party arguments, I think a lot of modern RPG players have never played a cRPG that used a list based inventory, or have only seen them on consoles and thus assume that it's console-itis. Sprinkle in a bit of PC elitism, and that probably has you covered.

Of course, I'm sure there's also people who will hate lists no matter what and will always prefer a grid system or, Heaven help us, Tetris inventory. I can't even begin to fathom that, but I'm sure they're equally boggled by my preference for lists.

tl;dr: It's mostly a lazy excuse, but one that has some logic behind it, so it's better than "cartoony", but not by much. IMHO. YMMV. MTFBWY. LLAP. OMGWTFBBQ. TANSTAAFL.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 24th, 2013, 11:28 pm
by paultakeda
Ronin73 wrote:
Hiver wrote: - oh and Inxile....

Your list inventory is there because of future planned ports to various consoles and other gaming platforms.
And it sucks.
I'm confused.

If inXile had chosen a grid inventory would this have somehow prevented Wasteland 2 from being ported to various console and other gaming platforms in the future? I personally don't care if they do, myself.

I'll admit I haven't owned a console of any kind since the ancient Atari 2600, but are list inventories really indicative of console games in general or is this statement the new "cartoony" of UI's ? (i.e. I don't really like it, so I'll throw this out as a complaint) because I've seen this comment pop up more than a few times now.
It confuses me as well. The earliest CRPGs used list inventory, including one called Wasteland, so this idea that that grid is PC and consoles list is perplexing and to me isn't a valid distinction.

To me the choice is dependent on game design. Tetris grids are useful when inventory is intended to be severely limited and forces the player to make choices. Granted, some are badly implemented, but that goes for any type of inventory system; for example, Deus Ex: HR had a decent grid inventory and Mass Effect's list inventory was so awful at launch it was hard to believe it got past testing.

The choice here is list, so now the real task is to make it a GOOD list UI.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 25th, 2013, 12:00 am
by Woolfe
What's really funny tho, is that with most of the next gen consoles appearing to have "touch" screen/pad options on their controllers, its going to mean Grid based will become somewhat more viable for consoles in the future. So the whole argument is somewhat short sighted.

Also... So what if they plan long term to port it. I support the list method because it is closer to what was in the original game than a grid method.

And I like BOTH methods :D

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 25th, 2013, 4:01 am
by Hiver
Ronin73 wrote: I'm confused.

If inXile had chosen a grid inventory would this have somehow prevented Wasteland 2 from being ported to various console and other gaming platforms in the future? I personally don't care if they do, myself.

I'll admit I haven't owned a console of any kind since the ancient Atari 2600, but are list inventories really indicative of console games in general or is this statement the new "cartoony" of UI's ? (i.e. I don't really like it, so I'll throw this out as a complaint) because I've seen this comment pop up more than a few times now.
Well, i guess it could be that when someone thinks about a grid it somehow immediately means tetris kind of aranging of items in it. and with that the various console controllers would have a problem.

Therefore you get a list which can be scrolled with gamepads and whatever. Simple up and down direction keys and press A to select. etc.

But when i say "GRID" i just mean a space big enough to hold all or most of the item icons or... pics-models.
just like in Stalker games, for example.

There is no tetris there because you always have more then enough space for all items.
And even if Wasteland 2 will have much more items to collect and carry - tab sections of inventory would deal with that easily.

Weapons, ammo, tools, utilities, electronics, medicine,... whatever, etc - depending on what they have in the game.


Lately, many games that supposedly were built for PC had list inventories... because of planned console versions.
And what i dislike very much with that approach is that the companies basically cut corners and distort PC inventory in order to have an easier job later on (or the console version comes out first and then they dont have to work on a new inventory for PC but just port it in some half assed horrible way).

Witcher 2, ass defect games, facepalm 3 and New Vegas.... probably many, many more.

As ive said, i wouldnt mind they do make a console version or other versions later on. Go ahead - make more money.
Just dont mess with the PC version because of it.
If you want a console version - make it later. I dont care how much it would cost or how difficult or not that might be.

Thats about the thinking i have about the issue.

BN says they didnt do it for those purposes, so alright. I tend not to think people are liars without any evidence for it.
Glad to hear it.

Hmm... maybe one of the reasons for the list is that nowadays a lot of people use gamepad controllers to play even on PC...

As for that.. i ... dont have any sympathy either. Really. None.
paultakeda wrote: To me the choice is dependent on game design. Tetris grids are useful when inventory is intended to be severely limited and forces the player to make choices.
I think ive said that "grid" doesnt need to be made for that "tetris" mechanics and that there is nothing forcing it to use tetris mechanics - at all - about five times already.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 25th, 2013, 4:27 am
by Brother None
Hiver wrote:Hmm... maybe one of the reasons for the list is that nowadays a lot of people use gamepad controllers to play even on PC...
I use my gamepad controller for certain games. Really just platformers and racers tho.

WL2 is mostly mouse-driven so I'm not sure it'll be playable with a controller. I'd guess not, though we could patch it in later if need be.

Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Posted: June 25th, 2013, 5:30 am
by RusBear
You have the right to do anything with this game. the main thing - that it didn't go to harm to the Game itself...