Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by snakeoil » June 11th, 2013, 6:12 am

grid based vs lists? seriously? guys you should take a deep breath and relax, this discussion is rediculous not to say stupid. having played so many games with lists and grids, i can say that it doesnt really matter what inxile chooses, it all depends on HOW they do it. i loved resident evil 4s suitcase and i had no problem with skyrims list system.

inxile obviously decided to go with lists and thats 100% ok to me. we now have to find out in what way the inventory has to be tweaked to become truely perfect.

if inxile tries to make everyone happy it will only result in shit. i understand why inxile chose to use a list system, in a loot heavy game, lists are far more convenient than grids, they are also cheaper and easier to make.

if i could decide, i think (even though i know the pc-fanboys will cry bitter tears) looking at how baldurs gate for consoles managed the inventory could be a good compromise between the depiction of equipment and loot and a clean interface, seriously. it felt tight and you always knew what you had in your pockets. add the eye of the beholder page flip and arrows to switch between characters and look at their stats and this would be perfect to me.

in the beginning before inxile showed the inventory system i was strongly pro grid and inventory tetris but now after they showed us their thoughts i am fully able to adapt to this situation and make the best out of it, why cant you? just respect inxiles ui design and help them imrove it instead of telling them to start from scratch. the people at inxile have invested time and thought to come up with what they showed. its not perfect and some stuff is a bit too much (flipscreen,sparks and gunsize) but even if they stick to it, they will have a reason for it.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by sparkee666 » June 11th, 2013, 10:37 am

I concur with snakeoil.

There has been some debate over massive quantities of items that will be carried around. I didn't think this game was going to allow you to be a pack rat. The shear amount of stuff you may end-up carrying and having to sort through is probably going to be a non-issue in the game.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by McDougle » June 11th, 2013, 2:41 pm

With my eyes on all those UI mods for Skyrim... I don´t think it´ll take long for someone to heavily mod WL2´s inventory UI (adding a filter option for example, if there isn´t already one).
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Woolfe » June 11th, 2013, 5:50 pm

snakeoil wrote:<SNIP>
inxile obviously decided to go with lists and thats 100% ok to me. we now have to find out in what way the inventory has to be tweaked to become truely perfect.
<SNIP>
Snake makes a good point. InXile have decided for the list. They may well have reasons for that. They know all aspects of the game they are creating, so there may be a logical reason they went the list over Grid. It may just be a consistency issue for all we know.

I honestly think either system would work well enough that it wouldn't bother me too much.
snakeoil wrote:(even though i know the pc-fanboys will cry bitter tears)
I still don't get why lists are "console" and Grids are "PC". It is such a stupid argument. Both work well on a PC. The only difference is in the Aesthetics vs Info. I lean towards the info, others lean to the icons. I'll get used to whatever personally.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zombra » June 11th, 2013, 9:21 pm

Woolfe wrote:I still don't get why lists are "console" and Grids are "PC". It is such a stupid argument.
Strongly agree. Who thought that one up? I am a PC elitist if anyone is, and I prefer the list format. The idea that list lovers are controller-bound console kids is a pure fabrication. Everyone here is a PC gamer. I'm all for console bashing :twisted: but this isn't the place for it.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Drool » June 11th, 2013, 9:39 pm

Woolfe wrote:I still don't get why lists are "console" and Grids are "PC". It is such a stupid argument.
Because Bethesda's games use a list and GRR ARGH BLARGL!
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by kroska » June 12th, 2013, 12:27 pm

I like how fast you can equip items, sort through them and the auto organize loot system between party members. The favoriting system looks great. This inventory system is fast and streamlined, it definitely has players in mind. I finally don't have to spend 5 minutes passing out ammo among all the different characters, hooray.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Hiver » June 12th, 2013, 1:25 pm

kroska wrote:I like how fast you can equip items, sort through them and the auto organize loot system between party members. The favoriting system looks great. This inventory system is fast and streamlined, it definitely has players in mind. I finally don't have to spend 5 minutes passing out ammo among all the different characters, hooray.
With that i can only agree.

And i thought it would be fair to point this out.
Functionality is - excellent.

(few more tabs for types of items would not hurt at all)

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by sparkee666 » June 12th, 2013, 2:57 pm

kroska wrote:I like how fast you can equip items, sort through them and the auto organize loot system between party members. The favoriting system looks great. This inventory system is fast and streamlined, it definitely has players in mind. I finally don't have to spend 5 minutes passing out ammo among all the different characters, hooray.
Yeah the system, for what my opinions worth, looks good. I have only commented on it's physical appearance of the UI myself. :)

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by paultakeda » June 12th, 2013, 9:38 pm

Hiver wrote:There should be no limit to the grid. It doesnt need to be infinite but big enough so you can never really fill it completely - in case there are to be many, many, many items to carry. Number of items should not be limited by their size. Only by their weight. (and weight limit gives a means to design a grid that is big enough never to get completely full)

So there is no tetris stacking involved at all.
If a grid is infinite, it is basically a list that is not arranged by rows but by cells. I fail to see the benefit other than aesthetic. My preference for diversely large inventory will always be a list and for simplified, iconic inventory a grid.
Hiver wrote: No it doesnt. There is no need to see literally every item you have in one space or a window.
Tabs just make things easier to find.
Lists make it even easier (and lists can be tabbed as well). Pictures cannot depict everything if items have nuances: hence, a large diversity lends itself to list moreso than grid. At this point you are stating a personal preference with no practical differentiation.
Hiver wrote: If an item has a modification i suppose it would be visible on the item itself so seeing a pic or an icon of that item should immediately tell you if its an item with something extra. Then you click and see the data of it.

Seems very easy and quick to me.
This can be said of a list, except that a list is more amenable to comparison on key metrics than an icon overlay. Also, both benefit from an extra click for more specific data so this is a moot point.

As far as I am concerned, grid inventory is only useful when it has purpose, i.e. tetris-based encumbrance, which is dependent on game design. As you describe it, there is no distinction between list and grid except personal preference; as stated, either side of the argument is of equal value and essentially left to personal preference.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Hiver » June 13th, 2013, 9:18 am

To answer relatively shortly: i dont agree with any of those assumptions at all. I dont think about those features in that way nor i see they would result in such results, or have such meanings and effects - at all.

Continuing to argue at this point wouldnt be productive at all, for anyone.

As i said - i highly doubt InXile would or can change the inventory that much, now - so ill just have to learn to love the bomb.
Though further iterations and smaller enhancements can and most probably will make it better then it is now.

After all, it is a sort of a hybrid system, at least in some sense.
And the situation isnt as bad as it looked to me at first.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Jungle Rhino » June 14th, 2013, 3:09 am

Personally my favourite inventory system for a squad based RPG has been Jagged Alliance 2 1.13 mod.

So you have a Load Bearing Equipment system with a set number of slots with a specific size. Every item in the game has a certain size and can fit in one of those slots. Every item also has a weight so you couldn't exceed total weight.

I like the system because:
1. It is fun configuring your LBE to be as efficient as possible (like a mini-game) - with differing levels of APs to access various parts of your LBE this can get quite in depth if you want
2. It is VERY immersive and feels realistic and intuitive - not simply a bottomless dufflebag that no human could ever carry
3. The limited space makes for tough decisions about what to carry and what to leave - no stomping round as a ridiculous human arsenal with multiple primary weapons

Personally I would love to see a system like this for Wasteland2 but I appreciate that it isn't everybodies cup of tea and it probably also doesn't necessarily fit with the theme or style of game. Which from what I can see is more of a persistent Fallout/Elder Scrolls loot-hoover/sell approach rather than a JA2 'get the job done' then recuperate mission based approach.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Lucius » June 14th, 2013, 5:40 am

Jungle Rhino wrote:Personally I would love to see a system like this for Wasteland2 but I appreciate that it isn't everybodies cup of tea and it probably also doesn't necessarily fit with the theme or style of game. Which from what I can see is more of a persistent Fallout/Elder Scrolls loot-hoover/sell approach rather than a JA2 'get the job done' then recuperate mission based approach.
Yep, it's an RPG not a tactical combat shooter*.

I'm using the term shooter loosely.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by RusBear » June 14th, 2013, 6:41 am

It not so corresponds to news W2 -because nobody will not remake anything and we perfectly know it. ;)
Simply I would like to touch so to speak on an issue. From what it is a time difficult tactical elements began to spoil good rpg? Whether that is casual approach. against which all of us voted giving to Mr. Fargo some money for game? You don't want additional complexity, and I want? And what now? you are right, and I don't? it isn't sure. But complexity level is sure that if to put such things from the very beginning of development of game , fans only to be added. And still, all these conversations - "it wasn't in the original" (W1 ) - these are conversations for poor. the old school game- it not means not to add anything new, it means to do well.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Slim_Jim » June 14th, 2013, 9:02 am

RusBear wrote: the old school game- it not means not to add anything new, it means to do well.
I agree, though it took some time to get to your point :)
RusBear wrote:You don't want additional complexity, and I want? And what now? you are right, and I don't?

Yes, you're right in some sense. But it's hardly possible to make a game containing everything for everyone. I suppose, the most of 3 million collected on Kickstarter and PP came from american/european community, these communities are large and active (you can see that on this forum). So they have more power in this "agora" and they're target group #1.

By the way, there's an old thread here, Inventory UI. One year ago developers have already been asked to implement JA inventory system. Alas, it seems they choose another way. Well, that's sad, but inventory is not the whole game. I'd like to have more tactical choices with different equipment too, but again, we shouldn't expect from W2 everything at once. After all, there will be a mod kit.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by RusBear » June 14th, 2013, 9:53 am

To tell honest to me already a little bit bothered to correct games by myself. I hoped that with W2 it isn't necessary to do to me it, it is a pity...

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Sub-Human » June 18th, 2013, 11:37 am

Pretty good, how about being able to sort items based on stats (damage, accuracy)? A drop-down menu at the bottom would probably do this.

It looks playable, and that's what matters. You can't make a perfect inventory screen - everyone has their preferences - but I'm sure this one will cater to most.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Woolfe » June 18th, 2013, 5:57 pm

RusBear wrote:And still, all these conversations - "it wasn't in the original" (W1 ) - these are conversations for poor. the old school game- it not means not to add anything new, it means to do well.
Yes, and yet we want to remain true to the original, so you take each aspect, look at it, and work out whether it is something that can be done "better" or something that should be changed completely.

The mentality I have issue with is where someone comes along and says lets make a totally new game.
No this is a Wasteland game. Lets make another Wasteland game, but lets take what was in the original and improve it. And if it can't be improved, THEN let's change it. But lets still try and keep the feel of the original.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by wasted » June 19th, 2013, 7:53 am

did a quick search and no-one seems to have brought this concern up, so:

the spacial distance between the picture (top right) and the to-be-dragged-object "disconnect" the two. This could be mitigated if we were given the option to have the picture right beside the object (instead of the sketch of what category the item is). For reference: this would look somewhat like the fallout inventory - which was list-based as well. (and a real pain... but you took care of usability so that is not a problem).

Please consider giving us that option (you promised options ;-)). For me personally that is somewhat of a major concern, because if the picture is nowhere near the item the weapons "become numbers" - I hope you get what I mean...

Thx a lot!

(And like a lot of people already pointed out: the sniper rifle is out of proportion .)

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Hiver » June 23rd, 2013, 6:13 am

did you guys just deleted my post for no reason whatsoever?
your censoring what someone says if that doesnt praise some decision you made?

- edit -

look... i just wanted to make it clear that i absolutely dont like the list, because i didnt want me saying i wont argue about it to get understood as if i like it. I dont and i wont.

So just take this as a definite vote against it.

Other things:

As i said before the screen with the 3D model of a character should be moved to a separate section, - some kind of character screen, so it doesnt clog the inventory screen itself.
The thing is - we dont really need to see the 3D model of our characters. We really dont.

Looking at them from "isometric" or top down is enough for most of us - which this whole kickstarter campaign clearly points to. Right?

And thats the same reason we dont really need oversized huge and ridiculous looking weapons.
I mean... we will choose that specific weapon, as an item in inventory, and put it in the hands of our character after looking through its stats.

So we will know very well what kind of weapon any particular character has in his hands.

We are not so stupid that we need huge oversized weapons to know what our characters carry. mkay?
Its insulting if you look at it this way - and it looks just horrible.
Last edited by Hiver on June 24th, 2013, 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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