Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by DethRaid » May 30th, 2013, 7:07 pm

I like the mechanics of this inventory. Showing what the player has equipped at all times is a great idea. Trading between party members is nice and easy (still don't know how to do it in WL1). Starring items is awesome. The tabs you have available look great. Sorting items by different stats looks good. I'd definitely like a wildcard sort so that the player can choose a stat to sort items by. I tend to not prioritize items by weight, but by DPS or armor value.

However, I have a couple problems with the graphics of the thing. When the inventory first popped up, I thought that the panel which shows the character would go away to reveal more buttons underneath. It took me a few minutes to realize that it was supposed to be there. I'd be fine if it was there to begin with, or didn't have that shadow which makes it so clearly not a part of whatever object the inventory is shown on. That shadow also covers what looks like the primary weapon slot. Why? Shouldn't the game do things to draw my attention to things like that, rather than hiding them from me?

I also dislike how there's a sort of animation where the inventory pops up. Animations like that force me to stop what I'm doing in-game. I'd much prefer an inventory screen that simply appears with no animation, where the screen showing my character looks more a part of the rest of the inventory screen.

Finally, the item description box looks cool with a photograph paperclipped to a textual description, but it doesn't really fit in with the rest of the inventory. Maybe you guys could add another screen division, like between the equipped items and inventory proper, so that the item descriptions are displayed in something that looks like a part of the inventory screen.

Like I said up top, I am with you guys 100% on the mechanics of this inventory screen. I just don't like the graphics of it.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Sxerks » May 30th, 2013, 7:14 pm

The Polaroid and note card description, looks good. Tabs idea is also good.

The extra animation, like the electricity jumping around the screen and the CRT that flips up from the bottom seem excessive.

The number of items listed at a time is only 8,will there be some kind of customization for items per page.

Non Inventory Screen comment:
I noticed the "single use lockpicks" and think that seems like a forced game mechanic to get the player to keep buying more lockpicks. A better mechanic would be to have them degrade when used based on your lockpick skill (and maybe an attribute). A low or no level character might have them break after a few uses, while a high skill might be able to use them the whole game.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by vadrick » May 30th, 2013, 7:16 pm

Functionally, it looks absolutely fantastic..

I will admit that the list itself needs some help. It seems like there is a lot of dead space between the entries, even accounting for the icons which are much larger than the text. I'd shrink the deadspace and the icons a little so we can get more entries on screen. Or.... pipe dream, make it configurable.

The little lightning bolt effect seems dorky, but not in a good way. Ditch it.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by SniperHF » May 30th, 2013, 7:22 pm

I mostly like it.

The one change I think should be made is the left side. Shrink it down a bit to get more usable space for items.

Also a question. Will the UI scale with resolution in such a way that I will get more visible inventory space in the list? Like If I'm at 1280x720 will I see 5 items listed at once max, and at 1900x1080 will I see 13? Or will the icons and text just get bigger?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zombra » May 30th, 2013, 7:49 pm

I'm VERY excited about this inventory system. And remember, I'm the guy who HATES inventory management. inXile has done a fantastic job here.

One thing that would be nice, maybe as an extension of "favorites", would be swappable loadouts.

It would be very helpful to be able to change between "Mariachi Charmer", "Camouflage Ninja", and "Heavy Battle Armor" outfits without having to double click hat, torso, pants, face mask, primary weapon, secondary weapon, and special accessory every time. It would save like 20 clicks on a full costume change. Being able to flag an item as part of a loadout would be wonderful. A loadout could be just a hat and a gun, or a full outfit.

I also hope there is a system in place to stop characters from changing armor instantly whenever they want. That always annoys me.

Lastly, I really enjoyed reading the item descriptions. The first aid kit got a good laugh from me. :lol: I love all the writing I've seen so far.

OK, one more thing. I like the style of the UI, with the animations and electricity shooting through it and everything. I'm totally cool with all that - please don't lose it. HOPEFULLY, we will be able to start dragging stuff around and looking at stats even while the animation is playing; otherwise, I am forced to agree that it will get annoying to have to wait for it every time.

And again, another thing. There seems to be a lot of criticism for the ridiculously big weapons. Personally, I am OK with them despite their looking pretty silly. That sniper rifle probably weighs more than the guy carrying it.

Annnnnnd another thing. On the YouTube feedback, user TheDeadpool1st suggested a tab that showed ALL party inventory, so you don't have to hunt through all 7 guys' backpacks to find the blue key. This is another very good idea.
Last edited by Zombra on May 30th, 2013, 8:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zigarath » May 30th, 2013, 7:56 pm

I agree with the junk tab idea! It would be great to dump everything u want to sell in a single column and make trips to the merchants easy. All in all it looks great and definately gives I that old school fall out feel. My only recommendation would be to lose the comic sans font. It lessens the post apocalyptic vibe and makes it feel more cartoonish and it seems everyone here wants it to lean a little more on the realistic side than not without going into brown town territory. In addition the combination of comic sans post card and index card remind me of tropico 3 and I can't get that out of my head

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zombra » May 30th, 2013, 8:08 pm

Comic Sans threw me for a second too. There are a million public domain "handwriting" fonts available. Preston's Writing is a pretty good one if you don't want to sift through, but that's just my favorite based on 2 minutes of browsing. I also liked Messy Ben and Harveyfont. Just grab one of those. Or scan in your own, inXile!
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by boldan28 » May 30th, 2013, 8:16 pm

Very, very happy with this inventory management setup. This definitely looks better than pretty much any inventory system I have seen in an RPG yet. The idea of re-playing fallout after seeing a decent interface like this fills me with dread. It's clearly designed with ease of use and speed in mind, which entails some sacrifices in realism compared to say, Baldur's gate, which involved both space and weight constraints and had a huge number of slot types to fill for each character. That said, I distinctly remember spending about 50% of my time in that game stacking potions, combining quivers, and equipping everybody with ridiculous rings so I could sell them later without taking up inventory slots in the meantime. For me, it looks like the gains in efficiency outweigh the sacrifices to realism, and it's clear that a lot of thought and time has been put in to this.

I second all of those who have mentioned that it would be nice to see a comparison of some kind between the inventory item selected and whatever equivalent item is currently equipped on the postcard or wherever the item stats are listed. This is one feature I did like about ME3 (*ducks and runs for cover*), which used bars rather than numbers for easy comparison between guns. For this game, sticking with just numbers I think makes more sense, but the currently equipped item could have stats put above or below in a different color to allow comparisons to be made.

The only other feedback I can think of right now is that just from seeing the video, I couldn't tell how much weight each character was carrying and what their maximum capacity was. I would venture that those stats are important enough to warrant appearing in the same areas where HP / AP stats are. Maybe I just didn't see it in there, but I think that's important to easily keep track of. I would also like the game to maintain a somewhat reasonable weight system.... We don't have to get totally realism-ed out about losing half an action point for every 10 pounds of weight or anything, but I would like to avoid the ridiculousness of FO3 where your character is basically a walking garage full of junk. Since this is a party-based game, it should be much easier to carry all the relevant items for the game without needing a bag of holding or anything.

In addition to the "favorite" star (awesome idea btw) it would be even more awesome to have a 'junk' star or a 'to sell' star, or maybe both, as previous posters have suggested. An alternative way this could be accomplished would be to have inventory organizing items (like backpacks and pouches), although those wouldn't really fit in too well with the current interface. Of course, another good way to address this problem is to not have a game environment filled to the gills with mostly useless stuff (I'm looking at you, Bethesda).

Last thing! It would be great to have a 'sector inventory' screen similar to that of JA2, which would allow you to pick up loot from within the inventory screen without having to select a character and walk over there. Since I don't think wasteland 2 will have 'sectors' per se, it could simply be limited to those objects within a given range. This system makes it much easier to give items to specific party members instead of having one guy go grab only half of the stuff because he can't carry the rest, then distribute it, then pick up the rest, etc. So that would be lovely to see.

BUT!

Do not let ANY of the above detract from my original statement, which is that this already appears to be the best inventory system I have personally seen and I am SUPER excited about the direction you have taken with it. Inventory is such a tricky thing with RPG's. All of us hardcore old-school RPG people that gave you money LOVE inventory management - the stats, the collecting, outfitting your team, all of it - but at the same time, it can easily become more than half of the actual gameplay, and turn into tedious instead of fun very quickly. This system emphasizes the fun parts (maximizing your squad's loadout) while cutting out a lot of the tedium (rotating your spear 90 degrees so you can carry a suit of armor). Well done people!

Oh, and I also would love more 17 minute videos. Can't you tell by my overly long posts?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zombra » May 30th, 2013, 8:23 pm

Oh yeah ... if anybody finds/uploads a version of the video that can be downloaded, please let me know. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Helion Tide » May 30th, 2013, 8:24 pm

To begin, this is my first post on the forums, and for being as tuned-in to the development of this game as I have been since backing the Kickstarter, I am extremely surprised that I have only just registered on the forums now. So to keep introductions short and sweet, I'm happy to be here, and I'm definitely looking forward to getting acquainted with more of you here in the coming weeks/months! :)

I posted my thoughts on the latest update on Facebook, but I figured I should write a more in-depth post on the community forums and reach a more suitable audience for feedback or suggestions to be shared with. Not that Facebook isn't an appropriate avenue to reach an appropriate audience, but I'm sure these forums will be much more effective.

So, without rambling further, here are my thoughts on the UI/Inventory in the latest update (which I am aware does not include final art, etc.):

- Art assets as a whole (UI, Inventory, etc) don't blend or sit well together (thematically and visually)
- Shape and borders of UI elements, although meant to look like machinery & contraptions, are far too sharp and precise
- Dimensionality of art is lacking -- the detailing and articulation to make the elements appear as if they are 3-dimensional objects isn't quite there yet -- and end up looking flat and unconvincing because of it
- Texture resolutions on UI elements look poor, blurry, and/or cartoonish in some places
- Consistency between art assets is lacking, thus believability and immersion suffers (personally)
- Consistency between in-game UI and inventory screen is lacking -- almost appears as though there are many different directions or ideas happening all at once, and they are competing with each other.
- Inventory text (not referring to notepad script) looks out of place, and is inconsistent with the in-game UI. Personally, text should appear as if it is being generated by the machines or screens they are being displayed within, or at least thematically similar across all elements
- The contrast between the yellow, bordered inventory art style and the green digital vibe of the in-game UI is throwing me off a bit. Perhaps this was just to accent that all UI elements can be customized by colour or what not, which is great, but the inventory system itself seems out of place to me, when it should feel as a part of the same universe and theme.
- Mechanical elements (LED's, electronics, wires, bolts/screws, etc.) also look out of place, literally separate from the metal or machinery and don't quite sell the idea that these are real objects that someone has made to function, but instead end up harming the art by looking silly and unconvincing.
- Hard to tell what the screens are made of. I notice a small stroke of white in the top right corners of them to make them appear as if they are curved glass, but due to the lack of depth to the art surrounding them and the uniformity to the colour schemes or the sharp edging, it doesn't quite sell the effect you're aiming for.
- The vector icons (the star, the gun, the shield, etc) look rather juvenile and cheesy to me, and again, differ thematically from the in-game UI.
- The character screen on a stick was a bit strange, and maybe a bit much. Not sure how that would function in reality, and was probably an interesting idea on paper, but I think a static, embedded display would be much more effective
- Also, the notepad seems a tad out of place, although I like the direction and the idea, it ended up looking separate or removed from the other visual themes going on
- Structurally and with functionality in mind, the inventory layout itself is great, I absolutely love it, but it just isn't quite there to sell the effect for me yet.

Anyhow, I'm no artist skillfully speaking, but I consider having a keen eye when it comes to these types of things, and really the only thing that's lacking for me visually at all is the UI. It just looks rather inferior to me in contrast to the environments and the game play. I mean no disrespect, nor do I wish to dishearten or discourage anyone -- everyone at inXile is doing an absolutely fantastic job on this game -- and I envy anyone in the video game industry for having the jobs they do, so I will apologize beforehand if I have sent the wrong message across by stating my critiques of the UI elements.

I know feedback or criticism can be difficult to swallow sometimes (being a sound designer/producer by trade and working with a small film production crew over the last year or so), but I sincerely wish all the best to everyone at inXile and I cannot wait to see how things turn out!

Cheers :)

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Jerichoholic » May 30th, 2013, 8:38 pm

I like the functionality of the inventory, but I'd tweak how it looks a bit.

Character animation on the screen looks over exaggerated, especially Lil' Neddy K (I don't like the cartoony hat and the jacket). Plus, the dark background might cause distraction. Fallouts had nothing in the background of the character, as well as the items. The weapons look way too big :?
I agree that a fancier font might fit better with the post-apoc setting.

Since W2 has 80s-90s vibe, maybe smth like that will work (of course rusty and worn)
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The electricity thing is great, I'd even add a bit of occasional noise on the screen. Love the favorites tab. And actually there is a miscellaneous tab on the right. That'll work for me. Super excited!

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by boldan28 » May 30th, 2013, 8:41 pm

I think part of the debate about the aesthetic/UI comes down to differences in terms of what people expect or are looking for from the game....

From what I have seen from the project so far, a certain amount of "juvenile-ness" or cartoony, over the top feel is what the devs are and have been going for - it's not unintentional. I can't say that it would have been my first choice, but after seeing the results I'm convinced that it has a certain appeal and is kind of fun. Ultimately, the most important thing is consistency. As long as the tone is consistent and fully realized, it doesn't so much matter what it is. That's why I focused on the mechanical aspects of the interface in my post - because ultimately a good or badly designed interface is good or bad no matter what aesthetic it has.

Just my 2 cents.... I just find it very difficult to critique 'feel' when I havent played a game myself. Besides, sometimes it is nice to try something a little different than what you thought you wanted :-)

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by namelessxx » May 30th, 2013, 8:43 pm

im totally psyched! it was well worth the wait for this update. everything i saw pretty much pleased me. in fact, i found myself constantly trying to click icons and lists and such. I didnt really see anything that i disliked enough to be anal about it. I still have faith in Brian+Co to deliver the game as they want to deliver it. i dont see the need to offer my opinionated feedback for a game i only paid purchase price for after fully funded.

i do however fiend for beta somethin fierce :lol:
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Helion Tide » May 30th, 2013, 8:56 pm

boldan28 wrote:I think part of the debate about the aesthetic/UI comes down to differences in terms of what people expect or are looking for from the game....

From what I have seen from the project so far, a certain amount of "juvenile-ness" or cartoony, over the top feel is what the devs are and have been going for - it's not unintentional. I can't say that it would have been my first choice, but after seeing the results I'm convinced that it has a certain appeal and is kind of fun. Ultimately, the most important thing is consistency. As long as the tone is consistent and fully realized, it doesn't so much matter what it is. That's why I focused on the mechanical aspects of the interface in my post - because ultimately a good or badly designed interface is good or bad no matter what aesthetic it has.

Just my 2 cents.... I just find it very difficult to critique 'feel' when I havent played a game myself. Besides, sometimes it is nice to try something a little different than what you thought you wanted :-)
Absolutely, I'm only making my observations based on the visuals I am seeing in videos. I personally think all of the elements are great ideas, but as you mentioned, the consistency and the execution are lacking in some areas for me (personally) for them to be effective and sell the theme they're shooting for. If they're going for more of a cartoon-ish vibe, that's fine, but it doesn't feel that way across all fronts and some areas seem out of place or more so than others.

I am known to be a bit of a perfectionist and rather picky, and I tend to favour realistic accents over other cartoonish art styles, but I figured just offering my 2 cents might pique a few discussions at the very least, either internally or otherwise. Again, I absolutely love everything on a functional level, I just feel the art execution could use a little TLC.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by dorkboy » May 30th, 2013, 9:01 pm

wow! overall really good, both functionality and aesthetics. :D

-lists, tabs, weapon slots and level of hardpoints/armour complexity: very nice indeed.

-second the junk tab.
-handwriting font kind of hard to make out quickly, especially the numbers.
-multi-use lockpicks kick ever so slightly more butt..
-waiting for the paperdoll to pop up could get old fairly fast unless you can start inventorying before it completes.

-love the background for the paperdolls! (and really like the paperdolls, too!)
-electricity is very nice along the wire, but gets a bit too much elsewhere..

intuitive, functional and exciting to look at. yeah, really not bad at all.. 8-)

oh, and the weapon descriptions :lol:
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Lucius » May 30th, 2013, 9:10 pm

boldan28 wrote:The only other feedback I can think of right now is that just from seeing the video, I couldn't tell how much weight each character was carrying and what their maximum capacity was. I would venture that those stats are important enough to warrant appearing in the same areas where HP / AP stats are. Maybe I just didn't see it in there, but I think that's important to easily keep track of. I would also like the game to maintain a somewhat reasonable weight system.... We don't have to get totally realism-ed out about losing half an action point for every 10 pounds of weight or anything, but I would like to avoid the ridiculousness of FO3 where your character is basically a walking garage full of junk. Since this is a party-based game, it should be much easier to carry all the relevant items for the game without needing a bag of holding or anything.
The weight stat is shown to the right of the character's name, directly above the animated character model. The $$ on hand is there as well. The numbers are small though; significantly smaller than the HP and XP numbers.

The weight system seems reasonable, which I think makes some folks issue of only displaying 8 items per column may be a moot point. One character can carry 120lbs and another shown carries 90lbs. Sniper rifle appears to weigh 30 lbs. and a ballistic vest weighs 10 lbs. With weights like this, you won't be running around with 15 guns on a single character. I suppose the items tab and crafting tab though may become bloated though, but with sufficient sort options and fast scrolling, I think it becomes a non-issue.
"Ultimately, the most important thing is consistency. As long as the tone is consistent and fully realized, it doesn't so much matter what it is. That's why I focused on the mechanical aspects of the interface in my post - because ultimately a good or badly designed interface is good or bad no matter what aesthetic it has"
I just wanted to quote this because I feel this to be true and I feel the UI is not consistent. The in game UI feels very green. The inventory feels very yellow. Certain things have the mechanical aspect others have a cleaner look (such as the action bar.) I'm vaguely remembering there might be some different UI options as far as style goes, but maybe I dreamt that. That last video was too long ago to remember what was said.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by boldan28 » May 30th, 2013, 9:22 pm

Lucius wrote: The weight system seems reasonable, which I think makes some folks issue of only displaying 8 items per column may be a moot point. One character can carry 120lbs and another shown carries 90lbs. Sniper rifle appears to weigh 30 lbs. and a ballistic vest weighs 10 lbs. With weights like this, you won't be running around with 15 guns on a single character. I suppose the items tab and crafting tab though may become bloated though, but with sufficient sort options and fast scrolling, I think it becomes a non-issue.
That seems totally reasonable.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Drool » May 30th, 2013, 9:26 pm

I quite liked it. It seems very functional, and I've always preferred list-based systems. Some random thoughts:

1) I like the little electricity-zappy thing.
2) The favorites tab is wonderful. Is there also an "everything" tab?
3) Not too worried about 8 items at a time. Wasteland was never a "hoard everything" game.
4) Will we have stacks? If I pick up an AK-97, and then pick up another one, will they merge to "AK-97(2)" or take two slots?
5) The little pictures are a great compromise, and I look forward to the eventual popups.
6) Will there be some kind of segregation between PC gear and NPC gear?
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by sparkee666 » May 30th, 2013, 9:29 pm

I would like the fonts on the que-cards to resemble a hand writen style from a fountain pen or a more ragged comic font the comic sans is still a little too sterile and common of a font,type selection is sometimes very hard to get right.

The font should also be written between the que-card lines or eliminate the lines from the cards.

The Paper clip on the que-cards should be moved to the right a little bit.

The que-cards are also a good place for more item stats.

The character background was a little distracting there was so much going on. I would like something a little more static with less detail and activity going on behind the character.

I'm indifferent to the scale.

The screen that comes up I think should just be an image in the inventories static screen, but I see the reason why you have it so I'm not sure this is a good critisism.

I would like to see larger character portraits somewhere.

I see some space on the bottom and side of the inventory screen you can fill that in if you need mor space

Colours and apearance of the whole inventory should also match the style of the on screen HUD; for example, less green for the icons on the HUD more yellow and light Grey or vise versa.

I would like to see some more animation on the model. It's a good place to consider idle animations when playing in the inventory.

I think you should get rid of the pipe coming of of the weapons display on the HUD.
Last edited by sparkee666 on May 30th, 2013, 10:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zombra » May 30th, 2013, 9:42 pm

Drool wrote:Will there be some kind of segregation between PC gear and NPC gear?
Eh? What means this? I'm sure there will be items like, "Johnny Z says, 'No, you can't have my Boomerang Sword,'" when you try to take it. But in the inventory screen, it seems like everything is already 'segregated' by who's carrying it.
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