Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

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sear
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Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by sear » May 19th, 2015, 2:39 pm

Greetings Exiles,

In this new Kickstarter update, we take a look at the upcoming Quirks feature in the Wasteland 2 Game of the Year Edition, along with a glimpse at our updated character creation process and some of our new user interface.

For the full details, check the update!
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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by dorkboy » May 19th, 2015, 3:53 pm

I think the tan text is way easier on the eyes than the green and especially the red, more so when the text background is dark (light/dark contrast) and without much visual "noise" coming through from the lovely background images.

The general approach to the quirks sounds good to me, but I'm wondering if some of them (Repressed Rage and Hypochondriac) might be a little too harsh on the drawbacks? (So that they end up with the reverse problem; too bad to pick?) Or are they intended for fairly specific builds?
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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Tets » May 19th, 2015, 4:24 pm

its nice to finally have a party overview. :D but i would have prefered an overview which allows you to see party stats and skills in one spreadsheet and allows you to easiy switch between rangers screen and party screen, like it was done here: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9746 This would also show useful information like like Party Charisma & Party Carry Weight.

Quirks look cool too! :D

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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Woolfe » May 19th, 2015, 8:16 pm

Nice..... I hate the dolls tho (Sorry to whoever the artist was)
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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Crosmando » May 19th, 2015, 10:51 pm

Looks great, can't wait to play WL2 for the... fifth time? (Not counting the times I finished the Arizona half during beta)
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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Harlan » May 19th, 2015, 11:08 pm

Please kill those creepy dolls with fire.

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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Stinktier » May 20th, 2015, 12:21 am

dorkboy wrote: The general approach to the quirks sounds good to me, but I'm wondering if some of them (Repressed Rage and Hypochondriac) might be a little too harsh on the drawbacks? (So that they end up with the reverse problem; too bad to pick?) Or are they intended for fairly specific builds?
Funny, i thought the opposite. :) Yes, I guess it depends on the build one has in mind. Imagine putting repressed rage on a character and design that character to be a close-combat bullet sponge. Actively encouraging that person to take the most of the damage dealt by enemies, while your other teammates are covered in the background. I'm not sure exactly how AI works but it seems to me it favors targets that are exposed/higher HtC. Repressed rage seems dope to melee or close ranged tank builds. Hypothetically, there's a good chance you can wipe out an entire group with a shotgun by moving up close, taking damage, and blasting away. Add pain pills so you don't need to send up your field medic into the fray, or let the tank in question have field medic skills.

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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by dorkboy » May 20th, 2015, 1:08 am

@Stinktier
By opposite I'm guessing you mean the drawbacks aren't too harsh?
Well, the more I think about it the more I think the drawbacks are perfectly fine, and I quite like the "binary" aspect of them; definitely not being able to do something is more of a game changer in my experience than a measly -5% penalty.
And they both apply to the same aspect of gameplay (criticals, medical skill use), so the drawbacks are inescapable (as opposed to a, say, a quirk that gave +5% damage and -25% cooking), so there's that, as well.
But would you really want to give Repressed Rage to a character who wasn't constantly putting themselves in harm's way, or Hypochondriac to someone who wasn't at least partially built around healing others? Then you'd only be getting the negative effect (most of the time, probably).
For those builds where they do make sense, they seem like pretty cool quirks, though.
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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Stinktier » May 20th, 2015, 1:53 am

Yeah, that's what i meant! Sorry for being unclear. 'Opposite' was a rather strong word for the context.

I'm completely agreeing on the "not being able to do x" thing. I think the designers/devs hit the right note there. Absolute limitations is what makes the identity, so to speak, of gameplay. Tweaks... are more of a pure means towards character optimization, and i think this game already has a lot of that, so... this approach balances things up in my book.

Speaking of books, things applying to the same aspect of gameplay was an interesting point. I'm noting that down. I've been making tabletop rpg rulesets with different focus in 15 years, but never really concidered that as a concistent feature before. Thanks!

Hmm.. that depends on playing style, i guess. One *could* use quirks as a guidant help for roleplay, or pick quirks as a means to add challenge, or change the game around a bit while not focusing on optimization. But my guess is that most players will try to pick quirks to match assigned tactical roles. [EDIT:] Or maybe that's wrong to assume. Many CRPG forums are heavy with optimization threads but that doesn't necessarily reflect every gamer's own playstyle. Personally, i think i'll get more fun out of trying some unusual combination here and there.

Also, some seems to be intended for pure social interaction + roleplay. We do not know the content but it's at least likely that some of them are.
A complete quess that is probably wrong: asshole prohibits diplomatic answers but gives extra options to use hardass here and there. Psychopath? Might be tactical, might be social. Could be that the player is given the option to predict the reaction of different speech options or grant a charisma related bonus in dialogue but is limited so that s/he can't choose empathetic speech options or have empathetic options replaced with manipulative ones or something. All in all, i'm almost sure at least some of them aren't as clear in a tactical context, but plays out more in the 'what type of playthrough will i do?' field. It could possibly add some more replay value, too!
Last edited by Stinktier on May 20th, 2015, 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by NovaRain » May 20th, 2015, 2:08 am

I'd give Repressed Rage to my energy weapon specialist for retaliating enemies, since EW can't crit at the beginning. But the 2x damage bonus combining with EW armor multipliers can be devastating.

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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Stinktier » May 20th, 2015, 2:14 am

That's one nice thing to try out! I wonder if the crit bonus will count even if EWs can't crit (that would mean they've written in a crit table, so it seems unlikely, but maybe...). And i wonder if pain pills counts as stuff a hypochondriac won't be able to take. Stuff like that will probably matter a lot to many.

What do you people think of the two-pump chump quirk mentioned in the update? It sounds loads of fun to me, and a quirk that can be applied to many builds for varying purposes.

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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by dorkboy » May 20th, 2015, 3:56 am

Yeah, it could be that it's just some of them that are so build specific.
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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Lupercio » May 20th, 2015, 3:59 am

Sorry for being a bit pedantic but the comma in the last sentence of the repressed rage description is in the wrong spot. I think it should be "...builds up and, like a power keg, you go off". Not sure if this is just a placeholder though, apologies if it is! :)

Image[/quote][/quote]

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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Drool » May 20th, 2015, 4:35 am

Hmm. I ran the sentence through Word and it was fine with the comma in either place.

I think it can go in either place, too. It's a matter of how you want to stress the sentence. Putting the comma after and turns "like a powder keg" into an aside or subordinate clause. Or, honestly, a parenthetical: "...anger inside just builds up and (like a powder keg), you go off," or "...anger inside just builds up and -- like a powder keg -- you go off."

The current structure kind of... hrm... welds the powder keg and the going off together. It makes them a little more equal, as opposed to the powder keg part being a modifier.

Personally, I could almost advocate for ditching the 'and' altogether and using a semicolon: "anger inside just builds up; like a powder keg, you go off." That or ditching the comma after keg.
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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Woolfe » May 20th, 2015, 4:44 am

Yeah looks ok to me... But I am a notorious overuser of commas :-)
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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Lupercio » May 20th, 2015, 4:49 am

Thanks, your explanation makes sense. Totally up to you guys where you want the stress in the sentence to lie... You're obviously on top of it all!

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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by sear » May 20th, 2015, 6:38 am

dorkboy wrote:Yeah, it could be that it's just some of them that are so build specific.
That's the plan. Most of the quirks are not designed to work for every single character build, and that's fine. We also have more than one quirk that can apply to melee characters. Other quirks are a bit more universal, with smaller benefits and drawbacks, so you might not need to alter your play-style a ton, but perhaps make different build decisions to maximize the bonus. And yet others still are a bit more in the direction of role-playing changes that are a bit more goofy or fun.

There's also synergy with attribute and skill choices, which we like. As some have noted, Repressed Rage works well on a really high Strength, high CON type character with lots of armor... so you'll want to probably spec appropriately, which means that there's other changes to how you will play your character (i.e. maybe you'll decide to forgo Luck since you can no longer crit normally, or opt for weapons with lower crit chances and higher base damage).

Really, the big thing we wanted to do was get away from the idea that most of our quirks are +1 this, -1 that. We do have a few along those lines because I think there's a legitimate gameplay want for those, but we're hoping you won't always want to pick a quirk that's just obviously great, or conversely, feel like you don't care because the gameplay tweaks are so insignificant.

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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Tets » May 20th, 2015, 7:21 am

There's also synergy with attribute and skill choices, which we like.
Which reminds me of: Will attributes affect skills? Any connections between attributes and skills?

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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by Salmanasar » May 20th, 2015, 7:54 am

Quirks are.. ok I guess, same with Squad Overview (but I wonder how do you want to display it on 5:4 monitors, because its too wide; and there's no place for non-custom rangers, too).
But I'm not a fan of the new Customize Ranger screen. Maybe it'll work on PS4 or xbox, but it will be just TERRIBLE on PC if we'll get the same one. We have 22' monitors almost in front of our faces, we dont need fonts and menus of that size. Old system, where we could see combat skills, knowledge skills and general skills in one window was MUCH better, easier to navigate, and gived us better overview on already spended skillpoints. We're all using mouses, we dont need all that tabs. Its typical console/gamepad compromise and I hope we wont be forced to use it on PCs (at least in "KB+M mode").

And I still hope that we'll hear something about restoration of removed content, like Gippers :(

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Re: Update 62: Two Weeks to Bard's Tale IV; Quirking It Up

Post by RoastinGhost » May 20th, 2015, 10:22 am

The changes look nice, but I'm still not quite sold on the dolls.
Maybe you could use generic wastelanders, or the current character? Or maybe the picture isn't really necessary at all?

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