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Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 3rd, 2014, 2:08 pm
by Drool
sbock wrote:Good question. So what's the deal with the non Steam disc?
I'll just quote the important parts:
1. Your non-Steam disc will be pre-patched to the most recent version of the game at that time of printing.
2. There will not be any additional shipping fee or other payment required to receive it.
3. We will not be re-sending your existing reward format (large box or Collector's Edition); the new non-Steam disc will come in a separate case.

Currently we do not have a set ship date for these, but we will contact you with more details in the future.
Point 1 was the one I was most concerned about as originally, they were going to be Day 1 Patch versions, which still had serious issues (infinite enemy running, Hollywood, etc). Sounds like they'll be holding off at least until Patch 5. Even without balance passes, I'm satisfied with that. Hell, pretty much anything post Patch 3 would be fine from a playability/stability standpoint.
IHaveHugeNick wrote:Month of work for a balance pass? Why not just tackle the elephant in the room, aka Assault Rifle and some progression problems with armor and certain weapon lines.
Because everything's connected and if you "fix" assault rifles without looking at everything else, you haven't actually fixed anything.
Getting the mod tools out faster
This, on the other hand, I fully support. Of course, people have been whining about balance for so long that I'm not surprised inXile is focusing on that instead of mod tools.

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 3rd, 2014, 8:46 pm
by IHaveHugeNick
Drool wrote: Because everything's connected and if you "fix" assault rifles without looking at everything else, you haven't actually fixed anything.
Yeah, that's a bit of a blanket statement.

One weapon is overpowered, that doesn't automatically mean nerfing it a bit will ripple through entire gameplay.

The game is perfectly playable in current state even if you don't have AR user at all. I would know, since I beat it without AR user on team and only found out there was a problem by reading forums.

I generally dislike the idea of community made weapon mods, because people who do them often have bizzare ideas of what weapon balance actually means. But ultimately you simply can't argue with the fact that lively modding community is much more important to longterm health and replayability of this game then giving powergamers new exploits to look for in their 4th playthrough.

So pushing mod tools is what I would do instead of great rebalancing of everything. Although obviously its a bit of a moot point since they've already made up their mind :)

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 4th, 2014, 1:41 am
by Vault_13
What's all the buzz around the non-Steam disc? How can one get it?

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 4th, 2014, 4:02 am
by -Archangel-
Can we expect this balance patch this year? I really want to finish my 1st playthrough and I have been waiting for this patch a long time.

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 4th, 2014, 5:35 pm
by davek
Vault_13 wrote:What's all the buzz around the non-Steam disc? How can one get it?
I'm interested in this too, especially if it has the Linux binary on the disc. Was kinda sad to get my boxed edition, and only find a Windows installer inside.

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 4th, 2014, 11:40 pm
by frabron
-Archangel- wrote:Can we expect this balance patch this year? I really want to finish my 1st playthrough and I have been waiting for this patch a long time.
An ETA would be nice to have indeed! This year (I don't think so), Jan, Feb or in this line would be nice to know 8-)

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 5th, 2014, 6:53 am
by Lusankya
I got my Collectors Edition the same day this update came?! SWEET 8-)
So i was so nervous and anxcious that I had an accident in front of my door when coming home from the post office. Nothing broken but walking is out of the picture (that fall was godlike, 50+ ppl saw me going down whilst protecting the Collectors Edition with my body) for now. Thank god it was 3m in front of my door, on my way back. :P

#trueRPGpassion


Now I have time to enjoy the game in full. Christmas is saved :)
Thank you for all the hard work inXile and keep it up. My hopes for "new" RPGs that are worthy of playing is definitely back on high status.


Lus

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 5th, 2014, 1:38 pm
by Drool
Vault_13 wrote:What's all the buzz around the non-Steam disc? How can one get it?
Log into the Ranger Center and send in a request for one.

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 6th, 2014, 4:45 am
by kurosawa
"...work on another RPG..."

That is good to hear. It would be nice to see something different this time. How about an RPG in the style of the old bards tale games. Not an isometric RPG but in 1.person. Grimrock comes to my mind. Or even better ...a SciFi Setting, like the good old gateway\ gateway2

http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/539/G ... world.html

http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/540

Every step you take offers a rich view. Every screen you see tells a story of its own (I like the storytelling of the 2d concept design artists).
Why not also add a narrator like seen in 'bastion'?


What do you think?

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 6th, 2014, 5:03 am
by Godfather101
how about a mix from scifi and Fantasy.
albion comes to my mind:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion_%2 ... er_game%29

Loved that game.
Would be great to see something like that again.

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 7th, 2014, 9:01 am
by Harpagornis
IHaveHugeNick wrote:
Drool wrote: Because everything's connected and if you "fix" assault rifles without looking at everything else, you haven't actually fixed anything.
Yeah, that's a bit of a blanket statement.

One weapon is overpowered, that doesn't automatically mean nerfing it a bit will ripple through entire gameplay.

The game is perfectly playable in current state even if you don't have AR user at all. I would know, since I beat it without AR user on team and only found out there was a problem by reading forums.

I generally dislike the idea of community made weapon mods, because people who do them often have bizzare ideas of what weapon balance actually means. But ultimately you simply can't argue with the fact that lively modding community is much more important to longterm health and replayability of this game then giving powergamers new exploits to look for in their 4th playthrough.

So pushing mod tools is what I would do instead of great rebalancing of everything. Although obviously its a bit of a moot point since they've already made up their mind :)
Some time ago i also thought that AR are "overpowered". But after challenging the game to its limits with a Level-1-Solo-Run i can say: Forget about AR - take Snipers! Their range/precision is enough to kill everyhting in combination with some tricks/exploits.

One main problem - and thats what made the Level-1-Solo-Run possible - is the weak AI. Even in the final battle you can outsmart everyting (except the Gunslingers cause of their insane range) using a tactic i called "the Cheapo". It just uses the weak lost-on-sight-behaviour of the AI to kill one after another. Its explained in further details here: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11271

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 7th, 2014, 10:41 am
by mindx2
A RPGCodex scoop:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.ph ... ren.95740/

What does it all mean....? ;)

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 9th, 2014, 5:54 am
by Harold Anderson
ohhh i see... :)

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 9th, 2014, 7:23 am
by kurosawa
mindx2 wrote:A RPGCodex scoop:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.ph ... ren.95740/

What does it all mean....? ;)

hopefully it means we will see a timetravel RPG :D

"Meantime"

'Although set in the same universe as Wasteland... Meantime was to feature an entirely unique storyline. The basic premise was that the player would travel through time, and recruit famous historical figures to the player's party. For example, Amelia Earhart joins the party when she is rescued from a Japanese prison camp, and Wernher von Braun does when he is helped to escape the Soviets at the end of World War II. Each character would also have a particular specialty; Cyrano de Bergerac, for example, would have an expert fencing skill. The party would attempt to repair damage caused by a similar party of time-traveling villains, attempting to alter the course of history by influencing events.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meantime_%28video_game%29

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 9th, 2014, 8:37 am
by -Archangel-
Considering many people not familiar with WL1 complained how WL2 is without interesting companions due to 4 player made team + less complex companions, a Meantime game in same engine that has one main character and rest of group filled with interesting companions would be good. Also do implement body targeting similar (but better balanced) to Fallout. And perks ;)

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 9th, 2014, 9:09 am
by kurosawa
-Archangel- wrote:Considering many people not familiar with WL1 complained how WL2 is without interesting companions due to 4 player made team + less complex companions, a Meantime game in same engine that has one main character and rest of group filled with interesting companions would be good. Also do implement body targeting similar (but better balanced) to Fallout. And perks ;)

...i would say einstein could be an interesting companion. after i leveled up this nerd...

https://cuterthanecoli.files.wordpress. ... af970b.jpg


...fists, faster than light :lol:

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 9th, 2014, 1:22 pm
by Drool
-Archangel- wrote: a Meantime game in same engine that has one main character and rest of group filled with interesting companions would be good. Also do implement body targeting similar (but better balanced) to Fallout. And perks ;)
Sigh.

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 9th, 2014, 1:51 pm
by Andross
Drool wrote:
-Archangel- wrote: a Meantime game in same engine that has one main character and rest of group filled with interesting companions would be good. Also do implement body targeting similar (but better balanced) to Fallout. And perks ;)
Sigh.
Do you have a problem with having perks/traits/stealth/stealing/aimed shots just because Fallout had them?

If so, I must ask: what's wrong with it? I mean, all of them are features that could improve WL2's number of ways to solve quests, role-playing depth and combat's tactical options. Some of these are amongst the game's biggest weaknesses (in my honest opinion) and those Fallout's features I've mentioned would help if inXile implemented them properly. Just look at the little amount of tactical options the game offers, and that's not a good thing since delivering a deep, rich, varied and rewarding combat experience should be a must in a combat-centric RPG like WL2's is. Saying things like "b-but WL1 didn't have aimed shots" isn't a valid excuse because seriously, RPG design has evolved in a pleasant way during the 90's and taking benefit of it is hardly a bad decision.

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 9th, 2014, 3:56 pm
by Woolfe
Andross wrote:
Drool wrote:
-Archangel- wrote: a Meantime game in same engine that has one main character and rest of group filled with interesting companions would be good. Also do implement body targeting similar (but better balanced) to Fallout. And perks ;)
Sigh.
Do you have a problem with having perks/traits/stealth/stealing/aimed shots just because Fallout had them?

If so, I must ask: what's wrong with it? I mean, all of them are features that could improve WL2's number of ways to solve quests, role-playing depth and combat's tactical options. Some of these are amongst the game's biggest weaknesses (in my honest opinion) and those Fallout's features I've mentioned would help if inXile implemented them properly. Just look at the little amount of tactical options the game offers, and that's not a good thing since delivering a deep, rich, varied and rewarding combat experience should be a must in a combat-centric RPG like WL2's is. Saying things like "b-but WL1 didn't have aimed shots" isn't a valid excuse because seriously, RPG design has evolved in a pleasant way during the 90's and taking benefit of it is hardly a bad decision.
Because Perks/Traits/stealth/stealing/aimed shot etc were not unique to Fallout, and indeed Fallout's implementations of them were more often than not significantly broken.

As for the specific example of Aimed shots in Fallout that were mentioned. They were broken, and shouldn't be held up as an example of how to do it.

I don't know about Drool, but it is exasperating to see everyone holding up Fallout as the holy grail, when in reality it was quite a mess, that needed to be fixed by the community.

We all love Fallout, but using it as a reference point for everything is just silly. Why copy that, when you could try and create something new, that doesn't contain the same broken elements.

Re: Update 58:Life Beyond Release

Posted: December 9th, 2014, 4:02 pm
by IHaveHugeNick
My optimal Meantime team:

Hitler as demolition's expert
Ghandi as medic
Tesla as science guy
Mike Tyson as brawler
Marylin Monroe as talky char wooing the NPCs.

Hitler and Ghandi become best buddies, Marylin fucks Mike, and Tesla is just sitting alone during campfire stops, masturbating.