Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Discuss RPGs, video games, films, series, books. No political, religious or other serious debates, this is a hobby forum.

Moderator: SagaDC

User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 2973
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by Gizmo » September 5th, 2017, 9:44 am

Why does anyone care about that crap? Shouldn't the point be the person's technical skills? If they were skilled, then it looks like we've missed out on whatever they would have contributed.

(No, I didn't read it—it's social media afterall...)

Jozape
Explorer
Posts: 274
Joined: March 5th, 2012, 1:50 pm
Location: USA

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by Jozape » September 5th, 2017, 2:59 pm

Gizmo wrote:
September 5th, 2017, 9:44 am
Why does anyone care about that crap? Shouldn't the point be the person's technical skills? If they were skilled, then it looks like we've missed out on whatever they would have contributed.

(No, I didn't read it—it's social media afterall...)
Games are a non-essential item and there are lots of other role-playing games being developed these days. It's okay to not be a sissy and have a position in these situations. If I know that someone is a bigot like sser supposedly is then I'll take that into consideration before purchasing anything by them, especially if I'm the target of their bigotry; However, it's difficult to understand the full context of the their statements without reading their forums I'd guess. I doubt I could tell anyways since almost every post on the RPGCodex forums is some combination of being edgy, trolling, or actual bigotry.

User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 5752
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by Zombra » September 5th, 2017, 4:43 pm

Gizmo wrote:
September 5th, 2017, 9:44 am
Why does anyone care about that crap? Shouldn't the point be the person's technical skills? If they were skilled, then it looks like we've missed out on whatever they would have contributed.
I can see it being a direct issue for the consumer when the person is a writer.

And really I'm OK with people having opinions about who they do and don't choose to support with their dollars. Who should I hire to fix my fence: a Klan member, or the other guy? They both have the technical skill to do the job. Am I a bad person if I choose the other guy based on his (lack of) politics?
Image

User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 2973
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by Gizmo » September 5th, 2017, 4:58 pm

Zombra wrote:
September 5th, 2017, 4:43 pm
I can see it being a direct issue for the consumer when the person is a writer.
It's an interesting point, but I wonder does it matter—if the content shows no trace of bigotry? (Or is it a personal hatred on the part of the customer?)
*As an odd aside... would we even want no trace of bigotry (in the writing)? As fantasy stories are often based around prejudice against elves and such. Consider the Witcher games.

I can't help but find it ironic that the definition of bigotry is the "intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.", and so that makes the hatred of bigots... a form of bigotry. :|
And really I'm OK with people having opinions about who they do and don't choose to support with their dollars. Who should I hire to fix my fence: a Klan member, or the other guy? They both have the technical skill to do the job. Am I a bad person if I choose the other guy based on his (lack of) politics?
How does that play out if the person were a heart specialist, and you needed an operation, and they were the best (and the other guy was second best)? In a way, this reminds me of a few scenes in Blazing Saddles.

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5649
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by Woolfe » September 5th, 2017, 6:25 pm

I totally support people choosing not to buy stuff/services from those they disagree with.

This does seems like a Mountain from a molehill situation though. The guy was a dick, insensitive and ultimately wrong about a lot of his comments. But it's not like there was a lot there. People say stupid shit at times, without realising how stupid it is till later.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt personally.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

Jozape
Explorer
Posts: 274
Joined: March 5th, 2012, 1:50 pm
Location: USA

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by Jozape » September 5th, 2017, 9:18 pm

Gizmo wrote:
September 5th, 2017, 4:58 pm
Zombra wrote:
September 5th, 2017, 4:43 pm
I can see it being a direct issue for the consumer when the person is a writer.
It's an interesting point, but I wonder does it matter—if the content shows no trace of bigotry? (Or is it a personal hatred on the part of the customer?)

*As an odd aside... would we even want no trace of bigotry (in the writing)? As fantasy stories are often based around prejudice against elves and such. Consider the Witcher games.
In The Witcher isn't it a part of the world rather than the writers preaching to the player? I don't remember any preaching from the demo at least. I think the main reason is that people against or are targets of bigotry just don't like it when bigots "win" and like to see "justice".
And really I'm OK with people having opinions about who they do and don't choose to support with their dollars. Who should I hire to fix my fence: a Klan member, or the other guy? They both have the technical skill to do the job. Am I a bad person if I choose the other guy based on his (lack of) politics?
How does that play out if the person were a heart specialist, and you needed an operation, and they were the best (and the other guy was second best)? In a way, this reminds me of a few scenes in Blazing Saddles.
Hearts are a necessity of life for humans at this point in time though and valuing your own life is expected. A role-playing game is a luxury that most can do without.

User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 2973
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by Gizmo » September 5th, 2017, 10:28 pm

Jozape wrote:
September 5th, 2017, 9:18 pm
In The Witcher isn't it a part of the world rather than the writers preaching to the player? I don't remember any preaching from the demo at least.
The gameworld doesn't exist—except as a written construct of the author. The point of mentioning it was simply that it uses prejudice as an aspect of the setting, and some parts of the story; stripped of that, I think the setting would be a lot blander, and the unbridled sense that anything can happen on its dark seedy streets—would be lost in a syrupy swill of Tolkien and D&D.

Sure I've read fiction (and nonfiction) where the author tries to push a personal agenda, (both sides BTW), but I asked the question "does it matter? (if the content shows no trace of bigotry"), and I think you've answered this:
I think the main reason is that people against or are targets of bigotry just don't like it when bigots "win" and like to see "justice".
It's sad that bigots probably see it the same way from their own point of view; and might even label it using the same terms. I see this as its own form of bigotry. I see this as a bunch of people who flexed their social muscle-power to stick it to somebody they dislike on principle. It's a shame when anyone has that kind of power and influence to do wrong to others; or rather, it's a shame when they have it—and use it.
Hearts are a necessity of life for humans at this point in time though and valuing your own life is expected. A role-playing game is a luxury that most can do without.
And the point being that principles usually fall by the wayside when it suddenly matters a great deal to the person, depending on the situation. I was reminded (before) of the scene in Blazing Saddles with the old lady and the pie. I can't help but be reminded on many fronts, of the late Gene Wilder's awesome line in the film that explains it away, and sends Cleavon Little's character into giggling.

IHaveHugeNick
Master
Posts: 1175
Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 7:31 am

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by IHaveHugeNick » September 6th, 2017, 12:36 pm

Honestly, the whole situation is absolutely bizarre and feels like someone trying to manufacture a hit-piece on Obisdian. Sure, the guy made some comments that were quite tasteless, but there was nothing that extreme about what he said. It was some some mildly right-wing views that I don't necessarily agree with, but ones that he should be free to express. Instead he gets labeled a Heinrich Himmler reincarnated and gets doxxed, publically shamed and hounded out of a job. Pure insanity.

And yes, voting with your wallet is okay. Actively seeking out and trying to hurt people with different political opinions is not okay.
Two rite whiff care is quite a feet of witch won should be proud.

User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 5752
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by Zombra » September 6th, 2017, 2:33 pm

IHaveHugeNick wrote:
September 6th, 2017, 12:36 pm
Honestly, the whole situation is absolutely bizarre and feels like someone trying to manufacture a hit-piece on Obisdian.
Eh, it's not really any weirder than the whole fiasco with the backer content about a transsexual from POE 1.
Gizmo wrote:
September 5th, 2017, 4:58 pm
I can't help but find it ironic that the definition of bigotry is the "intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.", and so that makes the hatred of bigots... a form of bigotry. :|
Sigh. Of course it is. That doesn't mean one must embrace that which is hateful. We're getting very close to "You have to tolerate my intolerance!" No, I don't.
Gizmo wrote:
September 5th, 2017, 4:58 pm
How does that play out if the person were a heart specialist, and you needed an operation, and they were the best (and the other guy was second best)?
Eh. Let's not play "eXtreme hypothetical situations!!". Yes, if I was dangling from a bridge in a hurricane, I would let a Nazi save me. So what? Why are we going down this rabbit hole? The point is that voting with your dollars against someone you dislike (for whatever reason) is OK.
Image

User avatar
phimseto
Developer
Posts: 313
Joined: April 18th, 2012, 7:01 am

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by phimseto » September 6th, 2017, 5:11 pm

We're veering into the "no political" chat territory here, folks.

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8804
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by Drool » September 9th, 2017, 2:47 pm

Zombra wrote:
September 6th, 2017, 2:33 pm
The point is that voting with your dollars against someone you dislike (for whatever reason) is OK.
True. But if your reasons are stupid or petty, other people saying so is also okay.

Of course, my favorite author is HP Lovecraft, so separating the art from the artist is old hat for me.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

I neither work, nor speak, for inXile.

Not too late; make it eight!

demeisen
Scholar
Posts: 108
Joined: July 11th, 2015, 9:59 am

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by demeisen » September 10th, 2017, 8:24 am

SagaDC wrote:
January 29th, 2017, 1:54 pm
and personally the biggest things that kept me from fully enjoying the game were the poor level-scaling (I hit max level halfway through the game) and the RTwP combat system (I prefer turn-based). I actually never finished the first game, because I kept waiting for the expansion to come out, and by the time it finally did I was already focused on playing other games. I do need to go back and play through the game fully, though, since I hear the post-release patches really helped to improve on the whole game.
I skipped most of this thread since it looked political - just chiming in to reply to the above.

Absolutely agreed about the poor level scaling in POE1. Like you, I hit the cap around half way through, which also has the side effect that your party is way OP for much of the game, and there isn't a lot of combat challenge even on the highest difficulty setting. (Editing to add: although there are some pretty fun combats in the expansions).

Aside from that, though, the game has a lot to recommend it, IMHO, especially as you say with the latest patches and the two mid-game expansions which add a lot of nice new stuff. It's a really beautifully realized world - in my view about the best in recent times - and even some of the minor side-quests are poignant and well written. Gorgeous artwork abounds. Absolutely worth playing. You do have to forgive it a few flaws, but what game doesn't have some of those?

User avatar
phimseto
Developer
Posts: 313
Joined: April 18th, 2012, 7:01 am

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by phimseto » September 11th, 2017, 1:25 pm

To comment briefly on Pillars of Eternity, it would have been my GOTY had The Witcher 3 not come out a month or so later. I liked Pillars at launch, though it had the traditional launch game flaws. However, when I went back to replay it a year later with all the patches and both expansions, I absolutely *loved* the game. The only negatives I really have was that The White March reinforced my preference that expansions take place after the main story line and that the game wraps up so quickly once you get to Twin Elms (which is less a negative than my not wanting the game to end, I suppose).

I also have pretty different views about combat in RPGs. It's always the least interesting part for me, and one of the reasons I didn't mind being generally overpowered is because I put the work in - the side quests, the Endless Paths, etc. I'm a firm believer that the game should be easier if you take the time to plumb the content and I despise level scaling.

Anyways, I backed Pillars 2 and am looking forward to it, though I'm mulling whether or not to play it at launch or just wait until it's content complete. I'm still holding out hope that sea monsters and fishing make it in there somehow!

demeisen
Scholar
Posts: 108
Joined: July 11th, 2015, 9:59 am

Re: Pillars of Eternity 2 (Project Louisiana)

Post by demeisen » September 11th, 2017, 4:47 pm

phimseto wrote:
September 11th, 2017, 1:25 pm
The only negatives I really have was that The White March reinforced my preference that expansions take place after the main story line
Indeed. Very awkward to tie it into the middle of the game like that. Hopefully they've learned that lesson for POE2.
I'm a firm believer that the game should be easier if you take the time to plumb the content and I despise level scaling.
I'd express a similar idea but in a different way: if you don't take the time to plumb the content, the game should be much harder. It's similar to what you want, except that I'd prefer the game to be balanced around doing the content, instead of balanced around not doing it, as they did for POE1.

That said, it's always easy to find something to complain about, but on the balance I too love the game very much and think it was brilliantly done on many levels. I quibble, but only because I love the thing.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests