inXile has trademarked Autoduel

For general discussion of inXile and our games.

Moderator: SagaDC

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 10158
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Drool »

IHaveHugeNick wrote:Its almost like there haven't been countless space RPGs where you never get out of your spaceship.
Or numerous successful MechWarrior/Battletech games...
Alwa nasci korliri das.
User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5136
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Crosmando »

No party with multiple characters with their own attributes/skills/etc, no [indoor] map explorations? Doesn't even sound like a real RPG to me, just a tactics/strategy game with "upgrades".

Why not instead create an CRPG with vehicles but where your char/s walk around and fight on foot also? CRPG's excel when they have many features, not when they are pointlessly limited. Make an RPG with tactical combat, stealth, traps, vehicles, aircraft, lots of skills, as much as you can. The alternative just sounds like lazy developers to me.
Matthias did nothing wrong!
User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 6219
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Zombra »

Crosmando wrote:No party with multiple characters with their own attributes/skills/etc, no [indoor] map explorations? Doesn't even sound like a real RPG to me, just a tactics/strategy game with "upgrades".

Why not instead create an CRPG with vehicles but where your char/s walk around and fight on foot also? CRPG's excel when they have many features, not when they are pointlessly limited. Make an RPG with tactical combat, stealth, traps, vehicles, aircraft, lots of skills, as much as you can. The alternative just sounds like lazy developers to me.
Wouldn't that mean that RPGs that don't let you drive around are also "lazy"? Like those where you are limited to, say, walking? Because I can think of one or two RPGs that did OK where the characters walk.

And that part about how there has to be a ceiling above you for it to be a "real RPG" ... the mind boggles. "Exploring a dungeon on foot: RPG. Exploring a city in a car: not RPG." :lol:

Multiple characters required? Plenty of "real RPGs" have a single character. Not that there's any reason an Autoduel RPG couldn't have a group of PCs also. If I remember right, Car Wars was all about building a team of vehicles (with a plethora of statistics) on a point buy system ... either one big juggernaut or several smaller vehicles, player choice. The convoy is certainly a familiar genre trope.

As for cramming in as many different systems as possible ... is that the exclusive recipe for a good game?

It's OK to not like the idea of an RPG where the character(s) drive a lot, but trying to tear it down with "this can't be an RPG" and "the devs must be bad people if they consider this" isn't working.
Image
User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5136
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Crosmando »

Zombra wrote: Wouldn't that mean that RPGs that don't let you drive around are also "lazy"? Like those where you are limited to, say, walking? Because I can think of one or two RPGs that did OK where the characters walk.
Not necessarily, but it's often an excuse devs use. "Our game is focused" can often be a codeword for "It's too much work".
And that part about how there has to be a ceiling above you for it to be a "real RPG" ... the mind boggles. "Exploring a dungeon on foot: RPG. Exploring a city in a car: not RPG." :lol:
That's kinda my point.... there would be no dungeons in such an "RPG", at least not in a traditional sense. No searching caves, houses, sewers, fighting, looting etc. What is even the point?
Multiple characters required? Plenty of "real RPGs" have a single character.
And are worse for it!
Not that there's any reason an Autoduel RPG couldn't have a group of PCs also. If I remember right, Car Wars was all about building a team of vehicles (with a plethora of statistics) on a point buy system ... either one big juggernaut or several smaller vehicles, player choice. The convoy is certainly a familiar genre trope.
Sounds like a strategy game to me. Replace "points" with money and cars with tanks... Command & Conquer is now an RPG? (hey even units in C&C "level up"!).
As for cramming in as many different systems as possible ... is that the exclusive recipe for a good game?
For a CRPG it sure is. Unless you're one of those indie hipsters who think there's "elegance in simplicity", which isn't much different from the AAA logic which gives us mainstream RPG's with three classes and limited to no customization.
It's OK to not like the idea of an RPG where the character(s) drive a lot, but trying to tear it down with "this can't be an RPG" and "the devs must be bad people if they consider this" isn't working.
For a dev studio who have only made one ~real~ CRPG, I think it errs dangerously into the direction of "Let's do this because it's wacky" or the indie disease of trying to be unique or different just for the sake of being different or unique (usually to impress the media). Why can't we just have normal/traditional CRPGs?

You know that Elder Scrolls: Arena was originally going to be a game about a gladiator who fought in sn arena against progressively tougher opponents. Bethesda added side-quests outside the arena to spruce up the game, but quicker realized that the side-quests were more fun that the arena itself. Probably a good metaphor for "Autoduel" or it's likes.
Matthias did nothing wrong!
User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 6219
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Zombra »

Crosmando wrote:"Our game is focused" can often be a codeword for "It's too much work".
I find it doubtful that inXile has trademarked Autoduel specifically so they can be lazy and make a shallow game that sucks and get away with it.
That's kinda my point.... there would be no dungeons in such an "RPG", at least not in a traditional sense. No searching caves, houses, sewers, fighting, looting etc. What is even the point?
Wha ... are you serious? Adventures can't happen outside? Fighting can't happen outside? People in cars can't try to kill each other? Have you ever seen ... a movie?
Sounds like a strategy game to me. Replace "points" with money and cars with tanks... Command & Conquer is now an RPG? (hey even units in C&C "level up"!).
Shrug, Autoduel might indeed be more a thing where the cars have more stats than the characters. Building a car in CW bears a lot of resemblance to building a character in other games. But in Car Wars/AD the drivers and whatnot had individual stats as well, if I remember right, for whatever that's worth.
Is [cramming in as many different systems as possible] the exclusive recipe for a good game?
For a CRPG it sure is. Unless you're one of those indie hipsters who think there's "elegance in simplicity", which isn't much different from the AAA logic which gives us mainstream RPG's with three classes and limited to no customization.
So, to use a contemporary example, you think the Sims town building in Fallout 4 is a wonderful and appropriate idea?
For a dev studio who have only made one ~real~ CRPG, I think it errs dangerously into the direction of "Let's do this because it's wacky" or the indie disease of trying to be unique or different just for the sake of being different or unique (usually to impress the media). Why can't we just have normal/traditional CRPGs?
Wasteland 2, Torment: Numenera, Bard's Tale 4 ... that's three trad RPGs in a row. Can they not go slightly off the track with an upcoming project? How many straight RPGs do they need to make before they can do something a little different?
You know that Elder Scrolls: Arena was originally going to be a game about a gladiator who fought in sn arena against progressively tougher opponents. Bethesda added side-quests outside the arena to spruce up the game, but quicker realized that the side-quests were more fun that the arena itself. Probably a good metaphor for "Autoduel" or it's likes.
I have no problem with any game being made more fun than its original vision. But beware the dread Feature Creep.

Image
Image
User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5136
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Crosmando »

Zombra wrote: I find it doubtful that inXile has trademarked Autoduel specifically so they can be lazy and make a shallow game that sucks and get away with it.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised it was a "shallow" (simple) game for the New Orleans studio to gain experience with.
Wha ... are you serious? Adventures can't happen outside? Fighting can't happen outside? People in cars can't try to kill each other? Have you ever seen ... a movie?
Being stuck in a car all the time pointlessly limits and simplifies potential gameplay options. There's so much more that can be explored.
Shrug, Autoduel might indeed be more a thing where the cars have more stats than the characters. Building a car in CW bears a lot of resemblance to building a character in other games. But in Car Wars/AD the drivers and whatnot had individual stats as well, if I remember right, for whatever that's worth.
Even for a guy like myself who loves combat-dominant games, that sounds like the recipe for combat only (not just combat-dominant, nothing but combat). I mean what skills or abilities can you give a car? It would just come down to paying XP (money) to upgrade the armor or put a new gun on the roof. I mean "Auto Duel", I'm assuming this means that combat is done in controlled/contained matches like a tournament (correct me if I'm wrong), that in itself is way too limited in scope except for a very small, very low-budget affair.
So, to use a contemporary example, you think the Sims town building in Fallout 4 is a wonderful and appropriate idea?
If it's optional, why not. Many RPG's have strongholds or equivalent. I'd love a feature in a CRPG where you "control" a town and extract taxes, and reinvest in the town by selling stuff you find on your adventures, stuff like that.
Wasteland 2, Torment: Numenera, Bard's Tale 4 ... that's three trad RPGs in a row. Can they not go slightly off the track with an upcoming project? How many straight RPGs do they need to make before they can do something a little different?
TToN is not normal, it's a spiritual successor to a game which specifically tried to uproot RPG tropes and traditions.
I have no problem with any game being made more fun than its original vision. But beware the dread Feature Creep.
My only point I'd make is; why? Why not build on what already exists, Wasteland 2, a post-apocalyptic CRPG with many features, it's not perfect but it's a PA CRPG which is crying out for new features like stealth and..... driving stuff. Just seems pointless, why make a simple game when you can make a complex game?

A Wasteland 3 with helicopters and cars (not to mention other stuff like Jumping, Swimming, Sneaking) more be a thousand times better than something built from the ground up focused on one aspect.
Matthias did nothing wrong!
User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 6219
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Zombra »

Crosmando wrote:Being stuck in a car all the time pointlessly limits and simplifies potential gameplay options.
Except ... it's not "pointless" if the point is for it to be a game mostly about driving. Again, if you don't like driving, fine. That doesn't mean that every game has to have everything that's in the games you like, and it certainly doesn't mean that a game based on Autoduel needs to have a dungeon where you park the cars outside and then explore 20 levels of sub-basements on foot.
A Wasteland 3 with helicopters and cars (not to mention other stuff like Jumping, Swimming, Sneaking) more be a thousand times better than something built from the ground up focused on one aspect.
No one wants to see Wasteland 3 more than I do, and broader gameplay sounds great. But, even as a fan, I am OK with inXile doing projects that are not Wasteland 3. I'm sure they'll be grateful for my permission.
TToN is not normal, it's a spiritual successor to a game which specifically tried to uproot RPG tropes and traditions.
Wow, so Planescape: Torment doesn't qualify as a "real RPG"? :shock: ... Okay.
Crosmando wrote:My only point I'd make is; why?
Because Autoduel is a cool game? and because a good CRPG version of it would be welcomed by the fans?
Image
User avatar
Gruftlord
Explorer
Posts: 453
Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 2:43 am

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Gruftlord »

Lol, Crosmando. Is there ever anything you don't complain about? I remember you complaining about features being added to Wasteland 2, that according to you didn't belong into the game because they belonged to fallout. Which is funny, considering your recent suggestions of adding car duel to wasteland :D
User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5136
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Crosmando »

Gruftlord wrote:Lol, Crosmando. Is there ever anything you don't complain about?
I'm complaining? You should check out some of the WL2/DC subforums lately.
Gruftlord wrote:I remember you complaining about features being added to Wasteland 2, that according to you didn't belong into the game because they belonged to fallout.
I didn't "complain" about aimed shots or whatever, I just said they weren't essential as in life-or-death as some would have it. What I didn't like is that Fallout features like aimed shots got in, but actual features from the original Wasteland like Climb and Swim, and Silent Move, didn't make the cut, it felt like Fargo and his cohorts were actively taking their cues from Fallout and not Wasteland. I welcome their inclusion in WL2. I'd love if Wasteland had 50 skills.

And yes, it's largely my personal opinion. Same reason why I'm not excited about that Battletech game, it doesn't feel very RPG-like to me.
Matthias did nothing wrong!
User avatar
Gruftlord
Explorer
Posts: 453
Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 2:43 am

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Gruftlord »

Thanks for the clarification, you're not one to focus on positive aspects in your posts too much. So i hope you understand why i initially got another impression. Indeed, you have been pretty absent from posting in the wl forum the last week.

While i don't agree with your opinion on what constitutes a true rpg, i have to add, that i also feel less drawn to those 'machine' heavy rpgs. While mechanically the same thing, i feel different about a game where i have my character learn new things vs. one where i add new parts to a car or mech. I strongly prefer the former and my level of immersion is generally higher with them.

I, too hope that it's going to be a small game to let the new studio learn it's ropes. Though who knows. InXile has shown that they are willing to revamp those old 80s games into something new. (i.e. WL and bards tale were kind of similar, at least on the battle screen; with the biggest different, aside from the setting, being the travel screen: 1st person vs overhead. Both grid based though. Now look at the difference between WL2 and Bards Tale 4. Can't really tell their common heritage any more). So i'm eager to see what they come up with for auto duel.
Last edited by Gruftlord on October 27th, 2015, 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Lucius
Master
Posts: 2258
Joined: March 9th, 2012, 6:43 pm

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Lucius »

Every game doesn't have to be a party based RPG and every game doesn't need to appeal to every gamer. How much complaining did I do about TTON being a text heavy RPG with combat on the side? None. I didn't back it because I wasn't interested and *shock* never once complained.

With that out of the way, any sequel or successor to Autoduel, vehicle combat should be the primary focus. I'd say 80% of the game should take place inside your car. I loved the original, even if it was an action RPG-lite. It was a fun game, whatever category you want to stick it in.
SagaDC
Global Moderator
Posts: 3509
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 5:51 am

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by SagaDC »

Honestly, there are a lot of assumptions being drawn right now, leading to arguments based on almost nothing. At the moment all we know for certain is that InXile snagged the rights to make a game based on Autoduel. There are two previously existing things named Autoduel - one was the video game from Origin, and the other was a tabletop Strategy-RPG from Steve Jackson Games.

It'll involve cars, and will probably be an RPG or Strategy game of some sort, but it's hard to really draw conclusions beyond that at the moment. I'd suggest holding off on the arguments until we actually get some sort of teaser or Kickstarter page to criticize.
User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5136
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Crosmando »

SagaDC wrote:Steve Jackson Games.
Holy shit, now that's something to discuss! If this means InXile is planning on doing a deal with SJG then why not do a deal for a tabletop ruleset which is actually a) popular, and b) still being actively played with a large fanbase, like I dunno... GURPS! Which has dozens of different settings.

Autoduel isn't even in print anymore.
Matthias did nothing wrong!
User avatar
Gruftlord
Explorer
Posts: 453
Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 2:43 am

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Gruftlord »

Probably because they aim at licenses that are less popular for the general public but have a bit of an old school following. It worked three times for a success kickstarter. GURPS would probably mean aiming higher. That involves higher cost of license acquisition. Forcing you to aim at a bigger game release, increasing the size of your team (with the additional drawback of maybe wanting to keep the size later on), aiming at higher sales numbers.

If there's one thing we know about Brian, it's that he doesn't care for the mass market :P
User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5136
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Crosmando »

A GURPS-based CRPG Kickstarter would be massive, especially if it's a good setting.
Matthias did nothing wrong!
User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 10158
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Drool »

Crosmando wrote:And yes, it's largely my personal opinion. Same reason why I'm not excited about that Battletech game, it doesn't feel very RPG-like to me.
Actually, I'll side with Cros on this part here.

Having played Battletech, I'll admit that it's not much of an RPG. It's really more of a MOBA, like DOTA2 or like Warhammer 40k. It's more about strategy than character development. It's figuring out what 'mechs to field and how to best use their abilities to accomplish your goal. Sure, there's stats involved that you can tweak, but it's really more of a wargame than a role-playing game.

Which is why FASA came out with Mechwarrior, so you could have some RPG elements aside from your giant robot fights. And because it made sense to do something with the pilot outside of the 'mech fights. That's why Crescent Hawk's Inception and Crescent Hawk's Revenge are so wildly different than the Mechwarrior games. Granted, even the Mechwarrior games took you out of the cockpit, but that was really just to make money and repair 'mechs and hire NPCs.

So, anyway, my point is that I'm fine with saying Autoduel likely won't be much of an RPG. Hell, like I said, I thought it would be a fantastic base for an MMO or MOBA. And I'm fine with that. Not everything needs to be an old school RPG.
Alwa nasci korliri das.
User avatar
Lucius
Master
Posts: 2258
Joined: March 9th, 2012, 6:43 pm

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Lucius »

Yeah but Autoduel was nothing like a MMO or MOBA. I imagine you can take any "world" and use it as a MMO setting, but in this case I don't think that makes much sense. It would make more sense to just use a new IP, since Autoduel name wouldn't be large enough to build a playerbase off of.

Lots of interesting things on the web about Autoduel recently though. Like SJG might still hold the trademark which raises the question of what is inXile doing. Also that whole thing with Motorgun failed kickstarter that was originally titled Autoduel from a company founded by an ex-inXile employee.

From comments sections and forums where I got Autoduel Google hits, seems people are generally excited about what happens with this.
User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 10158
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Drool »

Well, yes. It was probably more like the Mechwarrior games. Doesn't mean the property (especially considering what Car Wars was) doesn't lend itself rather well to a MOBA.

Especially since that property is vastly more enjoyable playing against other people than just against the computer.
Alwa nasci korliri das.
User avatar
Ronin73
Master
Posts: 1366
Joined: April 3rd, 2012, 5:35 pm

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by Ronin73 »

Crosmando wrote:Same reason why I'm not excited about that Battletech game, it doesn't feel very RPG-like to me.
Probably because it isn't really being pitched as an RPG. The FAQ section on the Kickstarter says as much:

Is this an RPG like your Shadowrun games?

Our Shadowrun games are cRPGs with tactical combat. BATTLETECH will be a tactical ‘Mech combat game. If we’re lucky enough to reach the Stage 2 and Stage 3 co-funding levels, we'll be able to add some RPG elements, but the core of this game is tactical combat.
Crosmando wrote:
SagaDC wrote:Steve Jackson Games.
Holy shit, now that's something to discuss! If this means InXile is planning on doing a deal with SJG then why not do a deal for a tabletop ruleset which is actually a) popular, and b) still being actively played with a large fanbase, like I dunno... GURPS! Which has dozens of different settings.
Yeah, I'd be on board with inXile acquiring rights to use a ruleset that could be applied to multiple game settings. GURPS would be a fine choice. Rolemaster and D20 also come to mind. I'm sure there are others as well.

IIRC? GURPS was supposed to be used for Fallout until Steve Jackson became uahappy with the amount of violence/language in the game and pulled the plug.
The biggest failure in the recent past is this assumption that the audience is not smart.Too much effort is being spent making it dummy proof..all the clues are being held right in front of their nose.The exploration and journey is the reward

Brian Fargo
IHaveHugeNick
Master
Posts: 1200
Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 7:31 am

Re: inXile has trademarked Autoduel

Post by IHaveHugeNick »

I don't see what the problem is. Personally, I'm happy that Brian is still willing to take risks and experiment with weird shit, instead of chain producing nostalgia driven sequels. All the other KS RPG devs are playing it extremely safe. InExile is not. And lets leave it at that.
Two rite whiff care is quite a feet of witch won should be proud.
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”