A Weapon Re-balance Mod (Patch 4 OK!)

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Novamar
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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Novamar » October 24th, 2014, 9:36 am

AR's had to be nerfed, they were way to powerful.
Buffing other weapons to the AR-level would make the game way too easy.

I stopped playing after a few days as i recognized that there were an absolute imbalance in weapons.
This is completely destroying my fun to play this game.

You created a wonderful mod! (Playing again now with lots of fun)
Only thing i miss is at least one or two modslots in machine guns, jam risk is still quite high with a lot of shots.

Great job!

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by realblacktea » October 24th, 2014, 11:19 am

Thanks for your work! It seems almost everything works fine. Unfortunatly after installing this mod, everytime i fire an SMG, the game hangs up. I hope you can find, what causes this bug, i really like the rebalancing.

Halfgeek
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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Halfgeek » October 24th, 2014, 7:24 pm

realblacktea wrote:Thanks for your work! It seems almost everything works fine. Unfortunatly after installing this mod, everytime i fire an SMG, the game hangs up. I hope you can find, what causes this bug, i really like the rebalancing.
Looks like its hard-coded for SMGs to have 2 attack modes, and me disabling one of the burst mode makes the game engine confused. It did not crash for my own testing, but I think its an issue if your game is saved in a state where the SMG equipped, is set for the 2nd higher RoF burst mode (which I've removed), so when you fire it, it hangs or potentially cause a graphics glitch.

I will re-fix this asap by putting back in the 2nd attack mode. Time to re-balance SMG based on 2 modes of fire. grr

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Halfgeek » October 24th, 2014, 8:50 pm

The SMG fixed updated (v2) ZIP file of the mod is here on Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hryn6851plwhv ... 2.zip?dl=0

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NovaRain
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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by NovaRain » October 24th, 2014, 9:00 pm

Thanks for the mod. Although I'm not going to use it directly, but it's a great reference for me how/where to hex edit weapon attributes. Just hope the modding tools would be released soon, it'd be awesome if there's a simple enough item editor like F2wedit.

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by sjblack2014 » October 25th, 2014, 12:16 am

Halfgeek wrote:Big Betty (Tier 4-1; AP 6; 7.62mm; Cap 100; Crit 1.6x; Dmg 10-20x6; Jam 1%; Pen 4; Range 24m)
>Big Betty (Tier 4-1; AP 8; 7.62mm; Cap 100; Crit 1.6x; Dmg 25-40x5; Jam 1%; Pen 5; Range 28m) Acc - 10
* Avg 162, Max 200 DMG.

M60 (Tier 4-1; AP 5; 7.62mm; Cap 100; Crit 1.5x; Dmg 15-24x5; Jam 2%; Pen 5; Range 24m)
>M60 (Tier 4-1; AP 8; 7.62mm; Cap 100; Crit 1.5x; Dmg 30-50x5; Jam 2%; Pen 5; Range 28m) Acc - 15
* Avg 200, Max 250 DMG.
How was that accuracy modded? Did you only change the long range accuracy modifier? Or some other value that affect all ranges?

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by sjblack2014 » October 25th, 2014, 12:38 am

sjblack2014 wrote:
Halfgeek wrote:Big Betty (Tier 4-1; AP 6; 7.62mm; Cap 100; Crit 1.6x; Dmg 10-20x6; Jam 1%; Pen 4; Range 24m)
>Big Betty (Tier 4-1; AP 8; 7.62mm; Cap 100; Crit 1.6x; Dmg 25-40x5; Jam 1%; Pen 5; Range 28m) Acc - 10
* Avg 162, Max 200 DMG.

M60 (Tier 4-1; AP 5; 7.62mm; Cap 100; Crit 1.5x; Dmg 15-24x5; Jam 2%; Pen 5; Range 24m)
>M60 (Tier 4-1; AP 8; 7.62mm; Cap 100; Crit 1.5x; Dmg 30-50x5; Jam 2%; Pen 5; Range 28m) Acc - 15
* Avg 200, Max 250 DMG.
How was that accuracy modded? Did you only change the long range accuracy modifier? Or some other value that affect all ranges?
Never mind found it. Right next to AP cost and burst volume for the fire mode. That makes sense. I never even looked at the values below magsize. Thanks :)

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Momozo » October 25th, 2014, 6:26 am

Great Mod. I didnt complete the game yet, but I already figured how unbalanced the game is, so almost all my team uses AR. They DESTROY!!! Now I'm in LA and started fighting robots and Energy weapons. The problem is that Energy causes a TON of damage with my +9 armor. This is just stupid! I have to take the armor out all the time. And it seems they didnt even put a way out of this (like armors that are median good for both energy and no-energy).

During a fight, if I see that the majority of enemies are using energy, I cant take my armor off. So it just makes the proccess of dying and restarting taking precautions a repetitive task. It's no fun or intuitive. So, could you please make a version of your mode where Energy weapons dont scale with armor anymore?

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Halfgeek » October 25th, 2014, 8:51 am

Momozo wrote:Great Mod. I didnt complete the game yet, but I already figured how unbalanced the game is, so almost all my team uses AR. They DESTROY!!! Now I'm in LA and started fighting robots and Energy weapons. The problem is that Energy causes a TON of damage with my +9 armor. This is just stupid! I have to take the armor out all the time. And it seems they didnt even put a way out of this (like armors that are median good for both energy and no-energy).
It's not that EW itself is the problem, its late-game weapons are just very damaging.

If you ran into a bunch of AR enemies, or RPG launcher dudes, they will wreck your team too.

Generally, armor is very poorly done in WL2.

You either have more than enemy penetration, or it doesn't do anything. Which means most of the time, it doesn't so squat, because enemies have weapons with 7 pen a lot, even if you wear power armor, you are not reducing damage by much, but risk taking extra damage from EW.

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Momozo » October 25th, 2014, 9:15 am

Halfgeek wrote:
Momozo wrote:Great Mod. I didnt complete the game yet, but I already figured how unbalanced the game is, so almost all my team uses AR. They DESTROY!!! Now I'm in LA and started fighting robots and Energy weapons. The problem is that Energy causes a TON of damage with my +9 armor. This is just stupid! I have to take the armor out all the time. And it seems they didnt even put a way out of this (like armors that are median good for both energy and no-energy).
It's not that EW itself is the problem, its late-game weapons are just very damaging.

If you ran into a bunch of AR enemies, or RPG launcher dudes, they will wreck your team too.

Generally, armor is very poorly done in WL2.

You either have more than enemy penetration, or it doesn't do anything. Which means most of the time, it doesn't so squat, because enemies have weapons with 7 pen a lot, even if you wear power armor, you are not reducing damage by much, but risk taking extra damage from EW.
So you're saying that it isnt worth using an armor at all?

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Darmoth85 » October 25th, 2014, 9:27 am

Momozo wrote: So you're saying that it isn't worth using an armor at all?
I don't think it's worth using any armor that costs you combat movement speed anyway. But wearing none will let you haul more loot and ammo.

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Momozo » October 25th, 2014, 9:32 am

Darmoth85 wrote:
Momozo wrote: So you're saying that it isn't worth using an armor at all?
I don't think it's worth using any armor that costs you combat movement speed anyway. But wearing none will let you haul more loot and ammo.
I see... And to think I spent 7k scraps buying those +9 armor for everyone, thinking I was making a good deal.

That sucks.

I dont know if it is worth using this mode at this point, too, since I spent almost all skill points in AR Skills. With the new stats, I would be really underpowered at medium and close range. I just arrived at LA. What do you think? Should I install the mod?

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by kryft » October 25th, 2014, 10:47 am

Thanks for making this mod - I can finally play the game! (I'm not trying to suggest that the game is somehow unplayable in its current unmodded state, but I personally find it hard to enjoy a game without reasonably balanced game mechanics, even if it has other merits. Call it an obsession!)

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Momozo » October 25th, 2014, 11:20 am

I'm sorry, but could anyone tell me what "TIER" means for the weapons list?

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Darmoth85
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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Darmoth85 » October 25th, 2014, 5:17 pm

Momozo wrote:I'm sorry, but could anyone tell me what "TIER" means for the weapons list?
In the games code, all weapons except for uniques are marked with two numbers. The first number represents the tier, the second is which weapon in that tier.

For instance:

Code: Select all

AssaultRifle_Tier_1_1 - m1 6-10 8 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_1_2 - m14 7-13 9 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_1_3 - rusty 10-14 7 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_2_1 - M4 18-29 8 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_2_2 - Famas 12-17 8 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_3_1 - HK33 15-19 8 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_3_2 - M16 18-23 8 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_4_1 - AK47 30-38 5 762
AssaultRifle_Tier_4_2 - AUG 17-22 5 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_5_1 - G3 18-23 5 762
AssaultRifle_Tier_5_2 - AK97 36-40 9 762
AssaultRifle_Tier_6_1 - FAL 21-25 5 762
AssaultRifle_Tier_6_2 - G41 22-28 5 762

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Halfgeek » October 25th, 2014, 6:19 pm

Darmoth85 wrote:
Momozo wrote: So you're saying that it isn't worth using an armor at all?
I don't think it's worth using any armor that costs you combat movement speed anyway. But wearing none will let you haul more loot and ammo.
Same, combat speed is very useful, you can kite close range enemies, rush snipers, get into and change cover etc.

The damage reduced from wearing good armor is not that significant due to the small % reduction if your armor is higher than enemy penetration. But they slow you down a lot and open your team up to being massacred by robots.

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Halfgeek » October 25th, 2014, 6:21 pm

kryft wrote:Thanks for making this mod - I can finally play the game! (I'm not trying to suggest that the game is somehow unplayable in its current unmodded state, but I personally find it hard to enjoy a game without reasonably balanced game mechanics, even if it has other merits. Call it an obsession!)
Kryft, I felt the same way early on in AZ but I persisted because I wanted to experience the story. But for me, the replay-ability means Combat have to be fun offering viable methods or styles of play (particularly in Ranger/SJ). This means weapon balance is key.

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Momozo » October 25th, 2014, 6:25 pm

Darmoth85 wrote:
Momozo wrote:I'm sorry, but could anyone tell me what "TIER" means for the weapons list?
In the games code, all weapons except for uniques are marked with two numbers. The first number represents the tier, the second is which weapon in that tier.

For instance:

Code: Select all

AssaultRifle_Tier_1_1 - m1 6-10 8 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_1_2 - m14 7-13 9 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_1_3 - rusty 10-14 7 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_2_1 - M4 18-29 8 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_2_2 - Famas 12-17 8 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_3_1 - HK33 15-19 8 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_3_2 - M16 18-23 8 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_4_1 - AK47 30-38 5 762
AssaultRifle_Tier_4_2 - AUG 17-22 5 556
AssaultRifle_Tier_5_1 - G3 18-23 5 762
AssaultRifle_Tier_5_2 - AK97 36-40 9 762
AssaultRifle_Tier_6_1 - FAL 21-25 5 762
AssaultRifle_Tier_6_2 - G41 22-28 5 762

I see. So its kind of a category, right?

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by Halfgeek » October 25th, 2014, 6:27 pm

Momozo wrote: I see. So its kind of a category, right?
It's like a progression category, higher Tier = better, for most weapons this holds true. Within the Tier, there's alternatives with options, neither should be clearly better.

In the game, you tend to obtain the weapons of low tier early then it progresses until you reach CA then you get Tier 5 stuff, then later in CA, you get Tier 6.

I tried to ensure with my mod, that weapons within the same Tier are both good but offer different gameplay or suitable for different Ranger builds. This is done by making a fast weapon and a slower weapon, so a "fast" Ranger with more AP can use the fast weapon better by getting multiple shots/burst and relying on critical hits, but a slower Ranger is also competitive by using the slower weapon and going for less shots/burst but aiming for headshots.

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Re: A Weapon Re-balance Mod (All ranged weapons & blades)

Post by AlphaMagnum » October 25th, 2014, 7:59 pm

Question -- did modifying the weapons in this way affect the enemy's weapons?

Like...do they use your new and improved shotguns, or do they do the same damage regardless of whether or not your mod is installed?

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