abandoned trainyard question

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Kirinyale
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Kirinyale » November 16th, 2014, 12:24 pm

frozyx wrote: Hm well, i guess they are just there for fun. I mean, isnt that the main reason for a computer game? One could also ask why are you playing WL2 in general? Isnt it for fun ... or are you actually earning money from it for example?
Nope, I'm earning money from making games, not playing them. :( And yes I'm playing it for fun. WL2 is fun sometimes (thought I'd wish it to be more often). Just not in places like this one...

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Drool
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Drool » November 16th, 2014, 12:28 pm

You get the satisfaction of surviving a very tough battle.
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Kirinyale » November 16th, 2014, 1:02 pm

That may be enough for you, but not for me. Not in this case. It might have even felt like an achievement if there was some tactical touch to it, but there's none. Slicer-Dicers and tactics just don't fit together. They ignore distance, positioning, line of sight, walls (yes, they can attack through walls!), armor and pretty much everything else. Not really fun to fight cheaters. After hours of experiments, I ended up just blowing them up by the most powerful explosives scrap can buy, and the main "challenge" was to reload until I got at least two of them in the right position after their first turn, and not having my men injured to the point when killing a slicer nearby would cause a permadeath.

And yes, I honestly tried to fight them "intelligently". It just doesn't work, period. I did manage to win in a "fair fight" once, but all 3 of my surgeons ended up bleeding out with no-one to save them, so that wasn't really a win.

Not much fun as it is.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Drool » November 16th, 2014, 1:14 pm

Kirinyale wrote:And yes, I honestly tried to fight them "intelligently". It just doesn't work, period.
Huh. I found there's plenty of strategy in that fight; it just requires a little brain bending. I eventually managed it with only one person bleeding to death.

And, frankly, I find beating a cheater to be immensely satisfying. Far more satisfying than beating someone who plays fair.
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Kirinyale » November 16th, 2014, 1:47 pm

Drool wrote:Huh. I found there's plenty of strategy in that fight; it just requires a little brain bending.
Care to share? I've tried:

- Spreading my people as far as I can to minimize explosion damage. This works to some degree, but gets in the way of healing and item transfer.

- Luring slicers out 1 by 1 by keeping the main force behind and shooting nearest one with a sniper. Doesn't work, just brings quick death to that sniper most of the time. Because, as I said, slicers ignore not just distance, but line of sight too, so all 3 may simply teleport to any of your rangers on their first turn if they want to.

- Putting all my group tightly in some ruined building with only one entrance. The goal was to fight slicers 1 by 1, because it's impossible for 2 of them to approach at the same time (not enough space, given their size). Well, it turned out that it's possible, because their ray attacks come through the wall easily, and they don't have to see me to attack me.

Explosives, however, work against any and all. Of course, high difficulty damage downscaling doesn't help, but a few LAW rockets and an RPG-7 do the trick nevertheless. So what other method have I missed?

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Drool » November 16th, 2014, 2:46 pm

Been awhile since I did that fight, but it largely involved good old fashioned tanking by my melee beast with the 10 Strength. Keeping the other Rangers moving, even if that meant a "wasted" round without attacking. Also, hacking other robots makes most Slicer fights much easier (especially if there's Killers around, since they use energy weapons). Finally, you get good at mid-combat healing.

It's a rough fight, but that's what makes surviving it so satisfying. Kind of like the Scorpitron fight in the original game.
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Kirinyale » November 16th, 2014, 3:30 pm

Drool wrote:Also, hacking other robots makes most Slicer fights much easier (especially if there's Killers around, since they use energy weapons).
Ah, you got me on that one. It's the method I used myself to fight 2 Slicers in Damonta (just hacked everyone before attacking, made things much easier). Sadly, as I didn't know there would be Slicers beforehand, I just cleared out all the other robots on my first visit (they're pretty far from the Slicers), so there was no one left to hack when I finally came back.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by frozyx » November 17th, 2014, 12:11 am

Kirinyale wrote:
Drool wrote:Also, hacking other robots makes most Slicer fights much easier (especially if there's Killers around, since they use energy weapons).
Ah, you got me on that one. It's the method I used myself to fight 2 Slicers in Damonta (just hacked everyone before attacking, made things much easier). Sadly, as I didn't know there would be Slicers beforehand, I just cleared out all the other robots on my first visit (they're pretty far from the Slicers), so there was no one left to hack when I finally came back.
It wouldnt help anyway - you cant take a hacked robot over from a fight to the next one, b/c it will die at the end of the encounter. You could still get Vax and power him up with another application of Comp Sci for support. Also the Night Terror can be really valuable if you get him close to one or more Slicer Dicers - there is a good chance that you get 1 or 2 of them to fully focus on the Night Terror and spare your party in the progress.

Maybe this video could be of help too when it comes to positioning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBk6DdofGoo

But note that my player chars have very high CI (3 have 20, one has 18) and i got myself the Gamma Ray beforehands. This ofc can make a huge difference if your party doesnt have that.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by WebShaman » November 17th, 2014, 2:32 am

Hmmm.

I regard this area as one of the "optional, challenging" areas in the game.

It doesn't really have to be done, but one can do it.

Opponents are challenging (especially at the level that they can be faced).

I pretty much easily destroyed them on supreme difficulty, but then I have high CI AR users, and two Energy Weapons users (didn't have GRB yet, tho).

Also, I didn't have to fight them together immediately. I fought the closest one (concentrate everything on it) and the others were somewhere in "fog" - and didn't jump towards my location (perhaps a range thing?).

So I basically ripped it apart with only minor damage to my "Doc" (EW user).

I always kind of thought that the difficulty combined with getting Vax was the reward here (although it is somewhat strange that a "random" toaster is here - seems like more was planned for this area and landed on the cutting room floor).

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Kirinyale » November 17th, 2014, 10:53 am

frozyx wrote:It wouldnt help anyway - you cant take a hacked robot over from a fight to the next one, b/c it will die at the end of the encounter.
You can, as long as you don't trigger any encounter. :) Just be stealhy about it, and hack all of them without starting a fight, then start it where you need them. That's what I done in Damonta: hacked every "common" robot, then started a fight by shooting slicers. Though you have to keep in mind that the robots can somehow go back to their original program (i.e. turn hostile again) if the battle is taking too long.
frozyx wrote:You could still get Vax and power him up with another application of Comp Sci for support.
I had Vax of course, and his shots are a big help (especially when he's overclocked and can fire 3 bursts in 1 turn), but he's very hard to keep alive because of his erratic behavior and suicidal tendencies. And I didn't want to lose him in an optional fight after travelling through half of Arizona together. ;)
frozyx wrote:Also the Night Terror can be really valuable if you get him close to one or more Slicer Dicers - there is a good chance that you get 1 or 2 of them to fully focus on the Night Terror and spare your party in the progress.
Oops, I totally forgot about him. :( Didn't release him at first because I wasn't sure of the results, and then I just forgot to come back... Well, too late for that anyway.
frozyx wrote: Maybe this video could be of help too when it comes to positioning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBk6DdofGoo

But note that my player chars have very high CI (3 have 20, one has 18) and i got myself the Gamma Ray beforehands. This ofc can make a huge difference if your party doesnt have that.
346 HP on first burst?! :shock: Of course that would make a difference! That kind of damage makes the battle look like a cakewalk. Sadly, I've only got Gamma Ray just before leaving for LA, and never knew of it beforehands...

Also, you seem to have very good initiative. I never got the chance to move before any of the slicers once the encounter started.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by frozyx » November 18th, 2014, 11:18 am

WebShaman wrote:Also, I didn't have to fight them together immediately. I fought the closest one (concentrate everything on it) and the others were somewhere in "fog" - and didn't jump towards my location (perhaps a range thing?).
I had that once too when i was recording the video. I rather think its random - i.e. the Slicer has a chance of X% to jump and Y% to just run to you with X being much greater than Y - b/c i dont think i used a (much) different positioning on that try. Its still fairly unusual that they dont jump, which is why i didnt post that video on youtube (also b/c it was kinda boring when i didnt even take a single point of dmg).
Kirinyale wrote:
frozyx wrote: Maybe this video could be of help too when it comes to positioning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBk6DdofGoo

But note that my player chars have very high CI (3 have 20, one has 18) and i got myself the Gamma Ray beforehands. This ofc can make a huge difference if your party doesnt have that.
346 HP on first burst?! :shock: Of course that would make a difference! That kind of damage makes the battle look like a cakewalk. Sadly, I've only got Gamma Ray just before leaving for LA, and never knew of it beforehands...

Also, you seem to have very good initiative. I never got the chance to move before any of the slicers once the encounter started.
Yep, like i said. I had a Combat Initiative of 20 on 3 chars and 18 on the other one (the brawler). And i obv also got the Gamma Ray late in AZ. But Abandoned Railway is always the last site i visit before i leave AZ - b/c the 3 Slicers are one of the toughest battles and b/c its not story-related and relevant.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Zombra » November 18th, 2014, 12:15 pm

Kirinyale wrote:Well, is it really such a "good deed" to blow up a few brainless metal monsters AFTER they murdered everyone?
Interesting question, and obviously there's no right or wrong answer here. To me, it was a big deal to nail those bastards and stop them ever, ever doing it again.

Honestly, it's OK with me if there are ambiguous situations in the game that don't appeal to every player out there. You felt the encounter was not worthwhile ... you know what, I understand your disappointment, but I'm fine with it. There're a few encounters in the game that I found less than thrilling, but I just moved on.
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by PangaeaTNO » November 18th, 2014, 1:31 pm

Strange, I didn't think about the lack of loot before reading this thread. Didn't find this area first time through the game, so was exciting to find an area I didn't know. At level 15-16 on Ranger it was tough as balls, but I managed it on the third try without any perma-deaths. Had to give a point in surgeon to another person during the fight though, as otherwise one person would have perma-died when the last slicer exploded.

I actually felt a little physically sick when exploring that area, seeing people hacked in half and whatnot. It felt like a reward in itself to take those bastards out for good, and it's without doubt the toughest combat in the game so far.

Managed to beat them by spreading out quite a lot, and we used a LAW, sabot and mangler, and managed to hit several of them without killing our own guys.

Great battle.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by notabot1001 » November 12th, 2015, 7:49 am

Have same issue as sumbitch. No amount of successful Repair and Computer Science use leads to being able to start a dialogue with Vax :(

Playing on Mac OS with latest build on Steam.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Drool » November 12th, 2015, 2:04 pm

There is no dialog. He just activates.
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by notabot1001 » November 13th, 2015, 1:49 am

I remember seeing a video (perhaps from earlier WL2 versions) with a dialogue. Regardless, after activating he's not following me :(

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by macksting » December 1st, 2015, 10:19 pm

I got a short dialogue out of him, and he was effective in combat until a stray shot took him out in the Prison.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Juris » December 3rd, 2015, 8:06 am

Vax is really the key to the 3 slicer fight. On supreme jerk he killed two by himself (overclocked). Shooting out the legs of the far away slicers delays them for a round. Otherwise just spread out and do precision shots. I did have to reload once when one of my guys went down and two slicers exploded nearby, perma killing him. I didn't have anything special like the gamma ray blaster or use rockets

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by eolsunder » July 23rd, 2017, 9:01 am

the perfect use to spend money on a rpg at the citadel lol, or even lesser rocket launchers. I send a "scapegoat" up front, to see if I can draw multiple foes to him. Doesn't matter if he goes down or not hes just there so the rpgs can group and hit multiple foes. Of course get Vex first he can obliterate robots by himself. Then you shouldn't have a problem.

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