abandoned trainyard question

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Wakko
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Wakko » August 25th, 2014, 8:03 pm

Ditto last post. Started new game on August 14th.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by SagaDC » August 26th, 2014, 1:19 am

I submitted a save file with the VAX error in it a while back, and the response I got indicated that it's already fixed in the current in-house version of the game. No word on just how much involvement (or lack thereof) that VAX is supposed to have in the long run, though.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Tangaroa » August 26th, 2014, 5:15 am

You get responses? Whoa!

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by SagaDC » August 26th, 2014, 12:16 pm

Tangaroa wrote:You get responses? Whoa!
Well, admittedly in that case it was through one-on-one mails with Sea. While he isn't directly involved in patching things up, he does have access to the latest "in-house" builds from what I understand. He said he was unable to replicate the problem in his current version, even using my save file, so the safest assumption was that it had already been fixed on the current in-house build.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by McDougle » September 21st, 2014, 9:19 am

Just recruited him in version 1.0 ... he also explodes after a single fight... that SUCKS!

I went back 3 or 4 times until I was actually able to repair him. :evil:
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Wakko » September 22nd, 2014, 11:48 am

Having Vax explode in first combat mission seems exceptionally wasted... If I had to gripe about anything in this game, its the lack of imagination on how to integrate the character that you re-introduced into this game by making them say "Kill all humans" and explode.

F- for this developers.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Kasseopea » October 3rd, 2014, 5:54 pm

Hmm. There was this one guy who got jumped by some tremendous red worm and almost killed but then a blue glowing woman appeared out of nowhere and chased the worm away. I really had hoped that the robot/cyborg/toaster would have been that woman and that once i repair him/her/it, i would get a new, cool recruit. Welp. At least ive got the cute psychopathic native from Highpool^^ (Vulture's Cry)

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Grohal » October 5th, 2014, 4:08 am

Was VAX removed? Just entered the AR and the container was empty...
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Sslaxx » October 5th, 2014, 4:51 am

The only time I entered the site, VAX was already active - and hostile.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Kirinyale » November 15th, 2014, 1:42 pm

I'm walking with Vax half of the game by now. Repaired him with Rose's computer science first time when I got him, then just spent LOTS of effort to keep him alive. He never tried to explode on its own for me (perhaps that was changed in some patch?), but keeping him alive is really trick with his 50 HP and totally uncontrollable behavior...

---

And... well... now I'm officially MAD about this location. What's the point of fighting those 3 Slicer Dicers?! They don't guard anything. Just a few crates with random loot... and a toaster with random clothing. The only random toaster I've found in this game is guarded by 3 Slicer-Dicers?!!! Are you kidding me?! After leveling up for half a game, after spending most of my hard-earned scrap to buy tons of explosives just to be able to win this fight without permadeath casualties, in return I get... nothing?

I'm terribly sorry to say this, but there's something fundamentally wrong with developers that put such things in release version. Whatever people designed abandoned railway and Leve L'upe mine, I hope they will never get to design anything again. Doing it once was a big mistake. Doing it twice is a crime.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Zombra » November 15th, 2014, 2:08 pm

Yeah, I just saw your posts in the Mine thread ... no offense, but you seem kind of obsessed with the reward thing. Every challenge has to have a cookie when you're done with it. That's not always how it is in games of this nature.

Personally, I was glad to be able to get those people out of the mine. Would a magic sombrero have been a nice reward? Sure, but I wasn't angry that they didn't enchant one for me. Later, I was curious whether the Abandoned Railway Dicers guarded some incredible treasure, but wasn't too disappointed when they didn't. To me it was more important just to put them down after they slaughtered all those people (and honestly, to beat such a tough fight because "it was there").

I think you may want to reevaluate the idea that it's "fundamentally wrong" to expect players to enjoy doing things for their own sake sometimes. If your only motivation for doing anything is the expectation of a cookie, maybe what's "fundamentally wrong" is something else 8-)
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Kirinyale » November 15th, 2014, 4:15 pm

Zombra wrote:no offense, but you seem kind of obsessed with the reward thing. Every challenge has to have a cookie when you're done with it.
Not every challenge. But having the biggest, meanest challenges just for the sake of it? With no acknowledgement at all from the game? That's just totally not right. If I just wanted to fight against impossible odds for the sake of fighting, I'd choose a totally different game genre.
Zombra wrote:That's not always how it is in games of this nature.
I've played a quite a few classic RPGs. Not all of the greatest ones, unfortunately (still planning to get to some). And while there's no such thing as an ideal game, never ever have I seen a game so blatantly ignore player's natural desire to get something, at least something reasonable for his effort. For that kind of effort at least.

Believe me, I love challenge. I love exploration even more. I like backtracking too, when there's reason for it. So I'm really happy when a game has areas which are reachable early but require coming back with higher level, better equipment, or a new unique ability that allows to deal with some problem. But when all of this ends in nothing, it just pisses me off. It makes me instantly lose the interest in exploration, because really, what's the point to explore if there's nothing to find?

And if you think that this is the only gripe I have with Wasteland 2 - no, it's not. There's really a lot more problems than I hoped there would be. These 2 pointless locations are just too outrageous to keep silence about them. If I'd known beforehand that everything would be like this, perhaps I would choose to spend my time in some other RPG in the first place. There are some good alternatives, you know. Now, however... after spending 100+ hours already, I'm inclined to finish it just to see the end of the story. Hope it's worth it, but honestly, doesn't look like that yet.
Zombra wrote:Personally, I was glad to be able to get those people out of the mine. Would a magic sombrero have been a nice reward? Sure, but I wasn't angry that they didn't enchant one for me. Later, I was curious whether the Abandoned Railway Dicers guarded some incredible treasure, but wasn't too disappointed when they didn't. To me it was more important just to put them down after they slaughtered all those people (and honestly, to beat such a tough fight because "it was there").

I think you may want to reevaluate the idea that it's "fundamentally wrong" to expect players to enjoy doing things for their own sake sometimes. If your only motivation for doing anything is the expectation of a cookie, maybe what's "fundamentally wrong" is something else 8-)
You know, I might've even agreed with you at some point, but with all the problems I've seen during those 100+ hours of playing to reach the midgame, I just don't "believe" in the game world anymore. At least not to the point of making up my own excuses for things like this. Not when there's nothing really "special" about the rest. And... it's not really a "world". It's just a bunch of separately designed locations with little to none real, visible connections between them. All that talk of meaningful choice and consequence was a lie, mostly...

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Zombra » November 15th, 2014, 4:26 pm

Kirinyale wrote:You know, I might've even agreed with you at some point, but with all the problems I've seen during those 100+ hours of playing to reach the midgame, I just don't "believe" in the game world anymore.
Fair enough. I'm just responding to those two posts, not your accumulated frustration with the game as a whole. I felt that by themselves these complaints were a little silly, but if they're just two straws on the broken camel's back of your dissatisfaction, they make a lot more sense.

On another note, I thought about it a little more (and this observation has nothing to do with the train yard), and I realized that the actual reward for the Mine isn't 3 grenades ... it's access to Takayuki.
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Kirinyale » November 15th, 2014, 4:57 pm

Zombra wrote:I felt that by themselves these complaints were a little silly, but if they're just two straws on the broken camel's back of your dissatisfaction, they make a lot more sense.
Yes, I'm even taking notes as I play. Planning to summarize my feedback after I finish the game. Just no real point in dropping all the comments here one by one on the go...
Zombra wrote:On another note, I thought about it a little more (and this observation has nothing to do with the train yard), and I realized that the actual reward for the Mine isn't 3 grenades ... it's access to Takayuki.
I wrote about that too, I believe. While I agree that it's better than just 3 grenades, Takayuki is still nowhere near as useful as Rose or Vulture's Cry, whom (well, one of them) we get just for advancing the main story. I ended up travelling with him most of the time anyway, and even managed to make him useful sometimes, but that's not because he's good - that's because the other early options (like Ralphy, Scotchmo or Chisel) look even worse. :)

Still, that was at least some reward. Slicers, however, are much harder and yield nothing at all (and no, I'm not counting generic random loot + generic battle XP as "something"). Also, it would be so easy to fix! Why not put something unique in that toaster? A magic sombrero :twisted: would do nicely, 'cause I kinda expect to find some weird shit in toasters by now... After all, that's what they've been used for throughout the game, isn't it? The only type of never-random container... So what's the big idea breaking this "rule" when it matters most?

Or they could have moved that truck with Vax so that we'd HAVE to fight the slicers to reach it and get ourselves a follower... or even make the slicers ambush us right after we fix Vax... Although I must say, Vax in fact makes most hard fights even harder by constantly getting himself or others killed. His shots are pretty powerful (and he does a lot of them each turn), but 50 HP... meh. He's also a real pain to heal, because for some reason the mech.repair only restores 3-4 HP at a time... makes sense as a balance decision for combat perhaps, but I'd really wish it was changed for the "peaceful" game state.

Oh, by the way, I've just finally gave up on keeping Vax alive. After helping me all across the Arizona, the brave-but-stupid robot sadly succumbed to some red skorpion idiots. Now they are dead and he will be remembered (they won't). But, honestly, I don't think I'll miss him much. Less save-scumming sounds almost like a reward by now. :)

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Zombra » November 15th, 2014, 5:24 pm

Kirinyale wrote:Slicers, however, are much harder and yield nothing at all. Also, it would be so easy to fix!
It would, but honestly I would be disappointed if it was "fixed". I went back there to kill those murdering motherfuckers, and closure on that was an excellent reward. To be sure, at the time I hoped to find a pot of gold, but on reflection, I feel it's better I didn't. Given the choice, I prefer doing a good deed to doing a good deed and getting a gift certificate. That encounter is more memorable to me because of the lack of reward. I doubt that was intended, but to me it's a feature, not a mistake. YMMV of course.
Kirinyale wrote:Less save-scumming sounds almost like a reward by now. :)
:lol:
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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Proton Axeman » November 15th, 2014, 5:39 pm

*shrug*

What I would have expected would be some additional radio dialogue, since "giant killer robots having recently slaughtered everybody at a market" seems like something Gen. Vargas might be interested in hearing about esp. given the history w/ Base Cochise.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by SagaDC » November 15th, 2014, 7:13 pm

Zombra wrote:
Kirinyale wrote:Slicers, however, are much harder and yield nothing at all. Also, it would be so easy to fix!
It would, but honestly I would be disappointed if it was "fixed".
What's weird is that there ARE Slicer Dicer "parts" in the game, that are clearly intended to be random loot (Slicer Dicer Leg Gear and Slicer Dicer Poker). They're very heavy and almost worthless (as most robot parts are), but I can't help wondering why they were cut from the Slicer Dicer loot table. Possibly because the Slicer Dicers explode on death, leaving no "corpse" to loot (though the Pod People also explode on death, but still leave a loot bag or some lootable gibs behind). You can still find Slicer Dicer trash drops in one of the containers in Damonta, but otherwise they're not in the game.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Stansfield » November 15th, 2014, 7:18 pm

Kirinyale wrote:Less save-scumming sounds almost like a reward by now. :)

Feeling that. One of the reasons I wish there were a few more 'fixed' loot spots, places where I know I can get certain of the trinkets without paying for them and the like, or whatever. I'm not saying unguarded spots, but I wouldn't mind finding a few more of these dog collars & army issue backpacks, especially post patch 3.

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by Kirinyale » November 16th, 2014, 1:43 am

Zombra wrote:I went back there to kill those murdering motherfuckers, and closure on that was an excellent reward. To be sure, at the time I hoped to find a pot of gold, but on reflection, I feel it's better I didn't. Given the choice, I prefer doing a good deed to doing a good deed and getting a gift certificate.
Well, is it really such a "good deed" to blow up a few brainless metal monsters AFTER they murdered everyone? Sounds like pure vengeance to me. And since vengeance won't bring the dead back (but might easilly kill some of the still living in the process)... It won't even "teach'em" either, because as I said, they are just brainless metal monsters - not even synths thinking for themselves... Perhaps one more valid reason to kill them would be security - to prevent them from getting out and slaughtering something else nearby (e.g. Not-So-Happy Valley). But, well, you know, they're not going anywhere and the game does nothing to make me feel like they could.

Sorry if that sounded "too rational", but really, I don't see this as a "good deed" compared to most other deeds we've done in the wasteland. Some of which were so easy and naive...

BTW, one more reason for my frustration is that this location (together with the robot attack at radio tower) seemed like an obvious place to find the missing tank tread to get into the Prison. And it turns out that it's just some "flavor place", and no matter how I try, I won't be getting that tank tread until the story wants me to, and then I won't really need it anyway if I prefer diplomacy...
Zombra wrote:That encounter is more memorable to me because of the lack of reward.
Yeah, memorable is the word! :D I definitely won't forget that very soon. :twisted:

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Re: abandoned trainyard question

Post by frozyx » November 16th, 2014, 3:10 am

Kirinyale wrote:And... well... now I'm officially MAD about this location. What's the point of fighting those 3 Slicer Dicers?! They don't guard anything. Just a few crates with random loot... and a toaster with random clothing. The only random toaster I've found in this game is guarded by 3 Slicer-Dicers?!!! Are you kidding me?! After leveling up for half a game, after spending most of my hard-earned scrap to buy tons of explosives just to be able to win this fight without permadeath casualties, in return I get... nothing?
Hm well, i guess they are just there for fun. I mean, isnt that the main reason for a computer game? One could also ask why are you playing WL2 in general? Isnt it for fun ... or are you actually earning money from it for example?

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