Bobby's BB Gun....

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The Tallest
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Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by The Tallest » December 22nd, 2013, 12:05 pm

OK, so this whole thing makes no sense to me. You dig up Bobby's grave and take his BB Gun and the guy tells you to stop defiling the graves. You do and things go along as normal. You go through the entire turning the pumps back on and then go back to talk to Bergin about the radio tower and the entire town aggros on you? So, the time I spend doing the mission helping the town of Highpool is for nothing over a stupid BB Gun? Please tell me this is a bug? Because I can't turn the power on, I can't install the repeated on the radio tower.

I can see having to kill the first guy and Bergin but not the entire town. Now I have to reload my save all the way back to where I defeated the Wreckers at the compound.
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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by aegan » December 22nd, 2013, 1:06 pm

Why would that be a bug? For a game with consequences of your actions; the guy watching the graveyard saw you defiling a grave but just warned you once, that doesn't mean others will never know of it and just speak words.

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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by The Tallest » December 22nd, 2013, 1:13 pm

It just seems weird. OK I got caught so I didn't open any other graves. Why didn't the town go hostile before hand? Would they still have gone hostile if I opened the grave then not taken the BB gun?

I mean, yeah, I robbed Bobby's grave. I was curious. But at the same time I did just save your town. Is it really worth going all hostile on me? There's (currently in my party) six heavily armed Rangers with quite a bit of combat experience. You're a bunch of farmers with shovels and pistols. This isn't going to end well for you. So...let's forget I took the BB gun OK? I'll even give it back.

I dropped Bergin in one shot. I dropped the guy at the graveyard in one shot. Hell, anyone that stepped to my Rangers were dropped in one shot. It just doesn't make sense to me. It also stopped me from continuing with the mission. I couldn't turn the power back on. Couldn't talk to Bergin to get the quest (which is understandable) so I felt as though I wasted my time.

Now when I redo it, I'll leave the graves. But to me the whole thing seems kind of poorly implemented. Why the whole town? Bergin, the guy at the grave fine. But the whole town?
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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by SagaDC » December 22nd, 2013, 1:31 pm

The Tallest wrote:Now when I redo it, I'll leave the graves. But to me the whole thing seems kind of poorly implemented. Why the whole town? Bergin, the guy at the grave fine. But the whole town?
Well,it IS worth mentioning that (with very few exceptions) the entire Highpool settlement basically hates the Rangers over that Bobby thing. Many of the nameless citizens will even make comments to that end (or toss veiled insults your way), if you stop to talk to them. It's a sore spot to their entire community. Deliberately desecrating the grave sounds like a good way to get a lot of people to over-react, no matter what kind of nice things you've done for them lately. These are, after all, the people who tried turning to an entirely different organization for help (ie, the Red Skorpion Militia) rather than forcing themselves to rely on just the Rangers for assistance.

Could the reaction be better thought out? Sure. And I might see a small number of the citizens NOT attacking, but most of them probably would (mob justice and all). The fellow watching the graves does warn you every time you walk by. I suppose if you dig up the grave, they could try demanding that you pay a fine or something. Many RPGs have fairly binary responses when the player is caught committing a crime, though (ie, accost with guards or attack immediately) so this kind of response to a blatantly committed (and heinously viewed) crime should be no surprise.

Really, the only reason it seems silly at all is because the townsfolk are so weak - but that seems to be more of an issue with the design of many of the NPCs encountered (almost all of them have a trivial 5 CON).

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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by zanthious » December 22nd, 2013, 2:47 pm

the whole town aggroed me when i came back and i never defiled the graves soo...

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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by The Tallest » December 22nd, 2013, 5:56 pm

SagaDC wrote:
The Tallest wrote:Now when I redo it, I'll leave the graves. But to me the whole thing seems kind of poorly implemented. Why the whole town? Bergin, the guy at the grave fine. But the whole town?
Well,it IS worth mentioning that (with very few exceptions) the entire Highpool settlement basically hates the Rangers over that Bobby thing. Many of the nameless citizens will even make comments to that end (or toss veiled insults your way), if you stop to talk to them. It's a sore spot to their entire community. Deliberately desecrating the grave sounds like a good way to get a lot of people to over-react, no matter what kind of nice things you've done for them lately. These are, after all, the people who tried turning to an entirely different organization for help (ie, the Red Skorpion Militia) rather than forcing themselves to rely on just the Rangers for assistance.

Could the reaction be better thought out? Sure. And I might see a small number of the citizens NOT attacking, but most of them probably would (mob justice and all). The fellow watching the graves does warn you every time you walk by. I suppose if you dig up the grave, they could try demanding that you pay a fine or something. Many RPGs have fairly binary responses when the player is caught committing a crime, though (ie, accost with guards or attack immediately) so this kind of response to a blatantly committed (and heinously viewed) crime should be no surprise.

Really, the only reason it seems silly at all is because the townsfolk are so weak - but that seems to be more of an issue with the design of many of the NPCs encountered (almost all of them have a trivial 5 CON).
Man, talk about holding a grudge. It was 15 years ago. Hell, the ranger I used to kill Bobby originally with is dead now, died at the Rail Yard (WL1). His name was Flip-Flop (My custom made WL1 Ranger Leader)...and he was an idiot.
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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by ClashFan » December 22nd, 2013, 6:31 pm

Having played through both Highpool and Ag Center, I can tell you that when the game goes gold and I play for "real," I'm letting Highpool burn...

Ag Center is way more interesting, though I found it to be a bit buggier, too.

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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by SagaDC » December 22nd, 2013, 9:34 pm

The Tallest wrote:Man, talk about holding a grudge. It was 15 years ago. Hell, the ranger I used to kill Bobby originally with is dead now, died at the Rail Yard (WL1). His name was Flip-Flop (My custom made WL1 Ranger Leader)...and he was an idiot.
Well, it's a small community, and fifteen years is still within the lifetime of almost everyone living in the town. A "heinous crime" like the murder of a child is likely to be remembered for a long time, especially if the people who murdered him are supposed to be "good guys".

I mean, try to put it into perspective. We're talking about a town with, what, a population of thirty? Maybe? And they ALREADY didn't like the rangers, even before they were viciously attacked by a band of cybernetic raiders (which, mind you, they blame on the Rangers for not having prevented). To then have another group of Rangers wander into town and publicly dig up the grave of a child that other Rangers murdered is pretty over-the-top. Especially since the town is already on edge and there's absolutely no reason to dig up the grave, beyond: "Oh, I thought there might be something cool in there."

I can guarantee that if I had a kid and someone shot him, I'd still be pretty pissed off even fifteen years later. Especially if someone affiliated with the guy who shot the kid wandered along and dug up the grave for fun and profit. And that's me in the modern, "real" world, where there's a police force to handle that sort of thing. Not a fictional post-apocalyptic setting where justice can only be found at the barrel of a gun or the edge of a serrated combat knife.

Canonically, though, I think that the "default" Rangers are the ones who are supposed to have shot Billy in Wasteland 2. It seems pretty heavily implied that Hell Razor, Thrasher, Angela Deth, and Snake Vargas are the ones who performed the various story actions (killing Billy, wiping out the Guardians, stopping Finster) in the official continuity. Although, judging by the Desert Ranger graveyard, every other recruitable character from the first game could have also been involved.

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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by The Tallest » December 23rd, 2013, 5:27 am

ClashFan wrote:Having played through both Highpool and Ag Center, I can tell you that when the game goes gold and I play for "real," I'm letting Highpool burn...

Ag Center is way more interesting, though I found it to be a bit buggier, too.
I actually enjoyed Highpool more than AG Center aside from the entire town getting pissed at my looting Bobby's BB Gun. AG Center was just so tedious and quite boring for me. That and at the time I did the AG Center it was under last patch so there were some major issues for me that made completing it near impossible.
SagaDC wrote:
Well, it's a small community, and fifteen years is still within the lifetime of almost everyone living in the town. A "heinous crime" like the murder of a child is likely to be remembered for a long time, especially if the people who murdered him are supposed to be "good guys".

I mean, try to put it into perspective. We're talking about a town with, what, a population of thirty? Maybe? And they ALREADY didn't like the rangers, even before they were viciously attacked by a band of cybernetic raiders (which, mind you, they blame on the Rangers for not having prevented). To then have another group of Rangers wander into town and publicly dig up the grave of a child that other Rangers murdered is pretty over-the-top. Especially since the town is already on edge and there's absolutely no reason to dig up the grave, beyond: "Oh, I thought there might be something cool in there."

I can guarantee that if I had a kid and someone shot him, I'd still be pretty pissed off even fifteen years later. Especially if someone affiliated with the guy who shot the kid wandered along and dug up the grave for fun and profit. And that's me in the modern, "real" world, where there's a police force to handle that sort of thing. Not a fictional post-apocalyptic setting where justice can only be found at the barrel of a gun or the edge of a serrated combat knife.

Canonically, though, I think that the "default" Rangers are the ones who are supposed to have shot Billy in Wasteland 2. It seems pretty heavily implied that Hell Razor, Thrasher, Angela Deth, and Snake Vargas are the ones who performed the various story actions (killing Billy, wiping out the Guardians, stopping Finster) in the official continuity. Although, judging by the Desert Ranger graveyard, every other recruitable character from the first game could have also been involved.
That does make a lot of sense. I'll just leave the whole graveyard alone.
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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by SagaDC » December 23rd, 2013, 5:30 am

The Tallest wrote:That does make a lot of sense. I'll just leave the whole graveyard alone.
To be fair, though, digging up Billy's grave has been on my "to do" list for the past week now. I just haven't gotten around to it. I really do want to take a look at that BB gun.

Is it actually a usable weapon? ;)

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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by The Tallest » December 23rd, 2013, 5:34 am

SagaDC wrote:
The Tallest wrote:That does make a lot of sense. I'll just leave the whole graveyard alone.
To be fair, though, digging up Billy's grave has been on my "to do" list for the past week now. I just haven't gotten around to it. I really do want to take a look at that BB gun.

Is it actually a usable weapon? ;)
Unfortunately it's not a usable weapon; I was actually quite disappointed that it couldn't be used. It's worth some scrap but I didn't sell it. Figured I'd just carry it around as it was kind of cool.

Rex's grave also has a bone in it. The first time I looted Bobby's grave I kind of went crazy digging up all the graves to see what was in them. I only got about three of them before the town aggro'd on me. The second time I just took Bobby's BB gun.

I'm willing to bet though once the Stealth skill is implemented we'll be able to loot the entire graveyard without too much risk of being caught. Either that or we can stealth kill the guy watching the graveyard so he can't tell anyone. At least that's what I hope anyway.
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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by Grohal » December 23rd, 2013, 5:54 am

The Tallest wrote:..

I'm willing to bet though once the Stealth skill is implemented we'll be able to loot the entire graveyard without too much risk of being caught.
That would just be outright stupid, no one can unbury the dead in Stealth mode - takes too long, makes to much noice, etc.
:mrgreen:
Either that or we can stealth kill the guy watching the graveyard so he can't tell anyone. At least that's what I hope anyway.
Things like that are my hope in ANY serious RPG, seldom fullfilled which is kind of sad. But then in a town full of curious kids there is ALWAYS someone seeing you. :twisted:
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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by The Tallest » December 23rd, 2013, 6:08 am

Grohal wrote:
The Tallest wrote:..

I'm willing to bet though once the Stealth skill is implemented we'll be able to loot the entire graveyard without too much risk of being caught.
That would just be outright stupid, no one can unbury the dead in Stealth mode - takes too long, makes to much noice, etc.
:mrgreen:
Either that or we can stealth kill the guy watching the graveyard so he can't tell anyone. At least that's what I hope anyway.
Things like that are my hope in ANY serious RPG, seldom fullfilled which is kind of sad. But then in a town full of curious kids there is ALWAYS someone seeing you. :twisted:
Yeah, but give the kids some Coffin Nails and they just run off and smoke 'em.
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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by Drool » December 23rd, 2013, 6:46 am

SagaDC wrote:Although, judging by the Desert Ranger graveyard, every other recruitable character from the first game could have also been involved.
Poor Ralf :cry:

Although, it seems he did last quite awhile to make it to Imperial Scarscalp, or whatever his rank was.
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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by Maklak » December 23rd, 2013, 8:42 am

> Ag Center is way more interesting, though I found it to be a bit buggier, too.
I found cockroaches buggier, but flies and maggots are pretty buggy too. (That was a joke.)

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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by Danarchist » December 23rd, 2013, 12:46 pm

I have done both of them and find I really enjoyed highpool more, simply because the exploding pods drove me freaking nuts. Also the vendors in highpool have ammo that refills regularly, which proved to be super helpful for my current gun heavy group.
Speaking of that, I can't seem to find the lady that runs the wreckers everyone talks about? I found a "Wrecker stronghold" and cleared it out but did not see anyone special running around.

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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by SagaDC » December 23rd, 2013, 1:20 pm

Danarchist wrote:Speaking of that, I can't seem to find the lady that runs the wreckers everyone talks about? I found a "Wrecker stronghold" and cleared it out but did not see anyone special running around.
Jackhammer is the leader of the Wreckers. If you saved Highpool, then you encountered her amongst the last group of Wreckers that you fight right before you summon the elevator and go to the top of the dam. She's part of the group that's setting a bomb at the base of the dam, and has several lines of dialogue as you approach.

If you DON'T save Highpool, then she can be found in Jess-Belle's house, threatening Bergin and arguing with the other Wreckers about how to split the loot from their raid.

Either way, though, she's pretty inconsequential. For the most part she just provides a very minor clue about who's behind the attack on Highpool.

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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by neo519 » March 22nd, 2016, 1:28 pm

Way late to the party here but in case anyone stumbles across this thread out of frustration and lack of a spare save, if you sell the BB gun you can talk to Bergin without the town aggroing. Just make sure it's not in your inventory.

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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by FormyZee » July 10th, 2018, 3:07 pm

@neo519 ..you may be late to the party,,and i even more so (by 2 years) ^^
But my curiosity got the best of me,,and yes I "defiled" the grave of late Bobby and managed to draw up on me the wrath of Sean Bergin.
I thought I was toast to finish this quest, but thanks to you good sir all is well..
Thank you :mrgreen:

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Re: Bobby's BB Gun....

Post by Flanker_27 » August 17th, 2018, 10:26 am

As someone who grew up in the countryside, trust me, there's ALWAYS someone seeing you! I remember going around the neighbouring villages with my friends at 3am in the fields to unleash our marker-fueled artistic pulsions on the local electoral posters, and there was always, ALWAYS some guy who was awake, doing who knows what in his garden, seeing us and trying to yell at/chase us. Sometimes we could shake them, sometimes we couldn't :D

But that's not my point : there will always be someone who sees you, especially if you're not just three kids sneaking, but a bunch of heavily armed raiders that the village already has beef with.

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